Shannon Larratt is the twenty-four year old founder and publisher/editor of BME. The following meta-interview was conducted by Urban Primitive's Raven Rowanchilde, Shannon Larratt, and the outside world. Shannon Larratt may be reached via email at [email protected].

Shannon (16), long before starting BME

RAVEN: How and why did you become interested in Body Modification?

SHANNON: I don't think that can be answered. I know that I've always been interested, but I have no idea why. I think that time, and meeting a large number of similar individuals is showing me that it's something inherent in the way a person is "wired", in the same way that one's sexual preference is determined at birth. It's amazing how much in a person appears to be predetermined -- I've heard leathermen describe being turned on by leather since they were babies, and amputation fetishists wanting to be cut down since pre-adolescence.

I played with body modification starting at about age ten, but it didn't seriously begin until I was sixteen or so. However, it wasn't until I was twenty-one or twenty-two that I believe I can say that I was into it on a "pure" level -- That is, it wasn't until this point that my body modification was happening unrelated to any form of self-abusive behavior (if only in part).

At ten I was doing things like biting deep gouges on the inside of my mouth and threading electrical wire through them. Then minor cuttings until about age fifteen or sixteen. Within a short period I got my ears pierced multiple times, my nipple, and a frenum piercing. I also got several self done tattoos (a tribal tattoo on my biceps and a skull on my calf and a number of small ritual symbols). Later on these started getting replaced by and covered by more professional tattoos and piercings. As well at the same time I did a branding on my right biceps and a full torso branding, and began stretching my ear.

RAVEN: What do you mean by self-abusive behavior?

SHANNON: In that these some of mods were a sign of being "not right"... Rather than it being me trying to achieve a concise goal, it was primarily self-destructive behavior. While it may have been a step in the right direction, it was definitely for the wrong reasons. I had other problems in my life and they were physically manifesting themselves in my body.

* * *

Shannon, right before starting BME

BME: How did BME first get started?

SHANNON: In 1994 I first got online, primarily so that I could read and participate on rec.arts.bodyart, a USENET newsgroup focusing on body modification. Shortly thereafter I discovered the WWW. I set up a personal web page which contained photos of my own piercings and tattoos. Because this was still relatively early in the web's history, there weren't a lot of body modification sites. People came to what was at the time a very small and humble site in large numbers -- they even started sending me their own photos to add to the site. At the time I was working as a jeweller at Toronto's Stainless Studios Body Art, and they also contributed many photos.

It wasn't long before BME was receiving half-a-million hits per week, and monetary issues threatened BME (this was spring of 1995). Internet providers charge for bandwidth, and since BME was doing many gigabytes per week, Internex Online (IO.ORG), the provider at the time would have had to charge thousands a month. Luckily, IO.ORG was a small company with many pierced staff members. They supported BME and donated an account for it with no limitations.

Unfortunately IO.ORG was bought out by a large media company owned by ACC TelEnterprises, who were much more conservative. They were willing to host BME, but only if it was profitable for them. After a short-lived attempt at commercialization, BME was booted from ACC's server. Luckily Gypsy from Quintessential Communications and FreeQ.com donated server space and since then has been incredibly helpful in adding new features to BME like the search engine, rotating banners, passwording, and live chat areas.

Last time I looked at my stats, BME was doing about two gigabytes of bandwidth per day in 500,000 hits to a weekly 50,000 or so IP addresses (these numbers seem to go up daily). From this I would estimate an utter minimum of 50,000 readers, with a high estimate of 200,000+.

If I may be so bold, I believe that BME is the best body modification resource anywhere in the world, in any medium. This is thanks more to the help of thousands of users sending in files than being due to me.

BME: What do you consider BME's role to be?

SHANNON: BME is there to broadcast information on body modification subjects. The purpose of this broadcast is to create a community. I think that's the most important thing that BME has done... It's managed to bring a large number of dislocated and alienated individuals together into a relatively coherent community. It lets people know that what they're doing is OK, that it might just not be insanity. The USENET newsgroup rec.arts.bodyart does this as well.

BME: Your editorial policy on BME appears to be virtually non-existant. Some articles are extremely well written, and others are nearly incoherent. Why is this?

SHANNON: BME is a communaly project and expresses itself as such. Except for the most extreme errors, I try to edit as little as possible. I like having the feel of a community more than the feel of having a magazine.

JEFF GEURIN (A.E.Q.): What's the use of making BME if you are going to build a wall around it for all of us who just so happen to have our appendages intact?

SHANNON: The password "wall" around BME exists for a number of reasons. First of all, it protects those inside. It's not easy to discuss these subjects and reveal your deepest secrets when you know that the public (the ununderstanding public) can see it -- but when you know it's only your peers, a safe space is created. Secondly, it keeps people from copying the images and stories onto "alt.tasteless"-style web pages and newsgroups. Finally, on a business level, it ensures a constant flow of new submissions for BME, since people can "pay" for entry with materials for publication.

The other important thing to remember, is that almost all of BME is public -- it's just the BME/Extreme that isn't, and the Extreme FAQ's are public, for those people who are just looking for some information.

BME: What about BME/HARD?

SHANNON: Well, BME/HARD is an unrelated magazine... It's true that it is the spawn of BME, but that's it. It's an adult offshoot that focuses more on the erotic aspects than the modification aspects.

* * *

BME: You've published a number of do-it-yourself articles on dangerous procedures like castrations and subincisions. Are you worried about the legal risk?

SHANNON: Well, there are disclaimers, but I don't know how much that would protect me in court. It's a risk I'm willing to take. The way I see it, most of the people doing these procedures will do them no matter what, so if I can pass a little bit of information along to them to make it safer, I will. There's a certain risk in passing information that isn't totally accurate, because there's so much fantasy mixed up with fact when it comes to heavy modifications. I hope that people will read the information, and read it with common sense and intelligence... and then make a rational decision as to their actions.

BME: Do you advocate home procedures?

SHANNON: My recommendation is to go to the most qualified individual you can -- someone who can do the job properly and safely. In some cases, this may be the individual themselves. It's not something I would recommend, but sometimes it is the only viable option.

BME: And you've also faced some legal risks by publishing the "Dickless In Babylon" serial?

SHANNON: I've faced the threat thereof at least. However, whenever I've need the writer Mark Kramer to provide corroboration for his facts, he has done so at length. And whenever Joe Christ has tried to refute it, his facts have either turned out to be false or nonexistent. I have done everything I can to allow Joe Christ to present his side of the story, but he doesn't seem to want to.

* * *

RAVEN: How do you account for the increase in modern day trends of body modification?

SHANNON: I don't think that it has anything to do with a more permissive culture or anything like that. The reason has more to do with knowledge. Previously, people simply didn't know that it was an option... But now, they see it, and say "oh, yeah, that's a great idea -- I think that's for me."

So if any cultural change can be given the blame for the increase in modern day body modification trends, it's cheap communication and publishing, as that's what spreads the good word.

RAVEN: What methods, other than piercing and tattoos, are popular Body Modification practices in North America today?

SHANNON: Assuming that you're talking about methods peculiar to the body modification subcultures, outside of those two, scarification probably comes in next. If you're not limiting yourself to these subcultures, various cosmetic surgeries are also extremely common, with liposuction and breast implants being the most common. But I'm not sure if you want to count these, since they drive one closer to the cultural beauty-norm (or ideal), whereas tattooing, piercing, and scarification drive one farther way from the Western cultural norm (although perhaps closer to a subcultural norm). It's true that some of these practises are the norm in other cultures, but when it comes down to it, no matter what way you put it, it's not "our" norm. We're not Maasai warriors, and as much as some people like to pretend that we are, we never will be. Of course it's a great look though, and I'm happy to see people emulate it -- but they have to understand that while they might look like they're from some African tribal group, they're not. They're just another rich white person all dressed up. A guy with a $10,000 tattoo and a few thousand dollars worth of body jewelry is no different than the guy in the Italian designer suit wearing a Rolex.

Simplistically, people have an internal idea of how they feel they should look -- this is formed by a combination of upbringing (culture) and genetics. With various body modifications, one attempts to achieve this personal aesthetic ideal. As far as culture's control over it, I think that it's probably like the church and other cultural institutions designed to make the world run more smoothly through harmony... which for the most part is probably a good thing.

* * *

Texas implant

RAVEN: Let's talk about "extreme modifications". Tell me about implants...

SHANNON: Implants is actually a pretty "light" procedure as far as I'm concerned -- relatively simply both to perform and to heal. Implants are typically put in with one of two methods. For simple implants such as genital beadings the procedure is almost identical to a piercing. For more complex implants, an incision is made and spatula-like tools are used to open a pocket under the skin. The implant is then inserted and the incision is closed. Rejections and complications are extremely rare, as long as appropriate materials are used (Teflon, titanium, 316LVM stainless steel, etc.) and that the implant is inserted at the correct depth.

Implants haven't even begun to get interesting yet. Right now almost exclusively primary shapes (rods, cones, beads, etc) and simply combinations and arrangements thereof are being used. It won't be until fully formed 3d shapes are used that things will really get interesting... A friend in Philadelphia got a representation of the state of Texas implanted on his chest. While it's a little goofy to most, it means a lot to him, and is probably one of the more interesting ones around. While not as interesting, my personal favorites are facial implants, because I admire people how are willing to make that kind of pioneering social sacrifice.

Left: Shannon's tongue being split by a Dr. Busino in Albany. Right: Healed.

RAVEN: ...and tongue splitting...

SHANNON: Just like a tongue piercing is one of the simplest piercings, a tongue splitting is one of the simplest extreme modifications. It heals quickly, has minimal side effects (less than a tongue piercing does), and is an awful lot of fun! I know of three different techniques. The first one I know of was done in Italy by a dentist. It involved 5 mm cuts with a scalpel followed by silver nitrate (a cautery agent). Every time this healed, the procedure was repeated. The second method is to make piercings close to the front of the tongue and to tie them off with loops of nylon fishing line until they split. Over a period of three or more weeks, the tongue can be split. The third method, and the one that was used on me, is a surgical method performed by an oral maxiofacial surgeon with a laser. The almost bloodless procedure takes no more than fifteen minutes including the splitting and suturing. Full healing is accomplished in less than three weeks. In all cases, speech is only minimally affected, typically to such a minor extent that no one can tell. Taste is not affected, nor are any other tongue actions. In most cases, separate control of the two halves can be achieved.

It's interesting -- I had heard about tongue splitting for years through the rumor mill, but it wasn't until the summer of 1997 that it really became common enough that I began meeting multiple people with it done. Within a one month period I met five people having used three different methods. As soon as I knew it wasn't going to destroy my speech, I booked an appointment to have it done. Of all my modifications, it's probably my favorite.

RAVEN: When I first saw your split tongue, I couldn't help reacting with sexual curiosity. How do other women react to your tongue and subincision?

SHANNON: Assuming that they don't react with utter revulsion, which a certain percentage do, sexual curiosity is a typical response. If you're asking how do they react, as in, how does it "work", well, it works GREAT. It's not a modification that I would ever reverse. I'm very happy with it, and so are people on the receiving end of it... I'd recommend tongue splitting to anyone. It's both subtle and on the far reaches of extreme at the same, simple to get and heal, and as erotic as it gets.

It's interesting to note that I get far more reactions of revulsion from inside the body modification community than outside. While people inside the body modification community are very ready to accept a piercing or a tattoo, they can be very closed minded about anything else -- even more so that people who are total outsiders.

Genital bisection

RAVEN: ...and genital splitting...

SHANNON: Genital splitting is a relatively rare extension of subincision in which the top half of the penis is split as well as the bottom. It takes longer, is more painful, and significantly more bloody. There are additional risks, both due to bleeding and due to the nerves that run in the top half of the penis. However, with care, the procedure is typically uneventful. The benefits of two fully functional penises are obvious. Typical negative side-effects include some shortening and reduction in erectile stiffness.

Subincision

RAVEN: ...and subincision...

SHANNON: Subincision is the splitting of the underside of the penis, from the urethra downward. A short subincision, splitting only the glans, is known as a meatotomy (which sometimes occur naturally as a hypospadia). Subincisions are by far the most common "extreme" body modification. The simplest procedure for doing them is a clamp and cut procedure. The area to be cut is clamped with a hemostat, crushing this tissue. If this clamp is slowly closed over an extended period, the pain is minimal. If a topical local anaesthetic such as EMLA or various numbing agents available at sex shops is used, the pain is nonexistent. The clamp is left on for a while (half an hour or so), and when it is removed, the tissue is paper thin and has no feeling. At this point it can be cut with scissors or a scalpel. A glans will stay open on it's own, but once the cut extends into the shaft some form of closure (sutures, silver nitrate, etc.) needs to be applied to keep the cut from healing shut. Most people perform subincisions are self-done in private, but there are a handful of practitioners willing to perform them. Some use the technique above (for example, Blair at Tatarama in Toronto, or Todd Bertrang in LA), while others employ more complex methods such as cautery scalpels (Patrick Bartholomew of the London Piercing Clinic, or Steve Haworth of HTC).

RAVEN: What are the legal implications of practitioners doing subincisions without medical supervision?

SHANNON: Well, Steve feels that as a self-declared artist that when working in the United States that he is protected by his First Amendment rights as such. The body is his medium, and as an artist he has the right to express himself as he sees fit.

RAVEN: Interesting that all the practitioners you listed are men. Would there be a reaction if a woman were to perform subincisions on a man?

SHANNON: I'm not sure exactly what you're asking -- perhaps the procedure would take on a more sexual theme, rather than simply the end product. Either way, extreme body modification is almost exclusively a male practise. There are almost no females involved in it, and I'd wager to say that those who are have a large number of "masculine" traits. The reason I believe this is that as far as I can tell, extreme body modification is an extension of male mating behavior.

* * *

RAVEN: Tell me about BME/extreme: when, why, etc.

SHANNON: I think it was June 15, 1996 -- It was the one year "anniversary" of Jack Yount's death -- that date was chosen because Jack was such a strong influence on so many people inside this community, and did a lot to further body image freedom, both on himself and on others...

BME/extreme opened because there was no public forum for the discussion and exhibition of extreme mods. There were print zines such as UNIQUE, BALL CLUB QUARTERLY, ENIGMA, etc., but these only reach a select audience and are not available in most areas.

BME: How would you characterize the "average" BME/Extreme reader?

SHANNON: While BME very much spans every element of society, BME/Extreme is almost exclusively older males, and primarily gay. I don't know why this is; perhaps because of the way that their life has shaped them, or perhaps because there's something on a deeper genetic level. I'm somewhat of an anomaly -- young, heterosexual male, and not into the fetish scene. You'll see this same demographic if you look at magazines like UNIQUE. However, these numbers are rapidly changing as people in other communities discover their options.

RAVEN: As one practise of Body Modification becomes more accepted/trendy, do you think more people search for more extreme/underground methods of body modification i.e. splitting, stretching, implants to be even more different or have these practices always been quite common in certain circles?

SHANNON: Only an idiot chooses a modification because it's uncommon. I don't think that people should undertake any modification except for the fact that it appeals to them on some personal level. Doing it to shock people, or to make oneself freakishly unique points very strongly suggests to me that the individual has problems that need to be addressed before this level of personal change can be safely attempted.

People who get public body modifications are usually treated worse by the public at large. Outside of the modification subcultures, it's harder to get jobs, service at restaurants may be worse, etc. If a person is already self-defeatist, this treatment simply acts as "proof" that the individual is valueless and "deserves" to be treated badly.

ON THE OTHER HAND... some people use modifications to revel in and take pride in their body. Visual body modification can also act as an asset -- it's a tag that people use to remember you. So if you're strong enough to overcome the negative aspects, then it can be very useful on a cold business level, just like being very tall or having a really big nose -- people remember you.

RAVEN: Do you think the majority of people get into body modification for sexual reasons (attraction, enhancement)?

SHANNON: Without a doubt. At least for the people who get into it for "healthy" (i.e. not self-abusive) reasons... This is obviously the case for anything genital related, or even anything below the neck. And I believe that anything visual as well is a part of mating behavior. When it comes to healthy people, I don't think there's anything they do that isn't tied very closely into sexual behavior. We are DESIGNED to reproduce after all. That's our primary purpose -- we're built for sex.

* * *

Sometimes home surgery gets a bit bloody.

RAVEN: Do you think that some individuals push their bodies too far to such extremes that could be considered obsessive and dangerous ?

SHANNON: Sure. It's called dysmorphophobia. It's when someone's internal body image is incapable of matching their external body image. They keep performing modification after modification and are never happy... Since for myself I very much have a goal in mind, I'm not personally worried about that.

RAVEN: With practices such as piercing becoming more commonplace, especially genital and more experimental piercings, are people trying to 'out do' each other?

SHANNON: I certainly hope not. That's not what body modification should be about. The people at the forefront of these movements are having fun and are involved with people who have a genuine interest in these modifications and the looks they achieve. However, from reading IN THE FLESH and similar publications, I believe that there are legions of piercers who are in the position that you describe. As far as I am concerned, these people really don't get it, and are just helping people to hurt themselves. Body modification is a personal journey, not some sort of a big-dick-contest.

RAVEN: Are there any body modification practices which still make you wince or have you become desensitized to the majority of acts?

SHANNON: I don't think I've been desensitized. I think that because I know these people personally, I understand that they are enjoying their bodies, and doing what's best for them in a fashion far more honest than the average person.

The only thing that I don't like to see is involuntary body modification and modifications done for the wrong reasons, such as various mental illnesses. And this is unfortunately far too common. My estimate would be that well over half, possibly as high as ninety percent of modifications are carried out for negative reasons, but I'm a pretty cynical person. It's probably not really that high.

RAVEN: What do you consider is the most dangerous practise of Body Modification?

SHANNON: Large limb amputation such as leg removal, both because it is very dangerous on an immediate level, and because it involves such radical life changes.

RAVEN: What about some piercers who have invented dangerous piercings such as the Princess Albertina, etc.? At which point does the quest for novelty lead to irresponsibility?

SHANNON: The Princess Albertina is NOT a dangerous piercing if it's done on the right person. It doesn't have anything to do with novelty. On some women, the Princess Albertina is an incredibly erotic, positive, and stimulating piercing. Things like this are only irresponsible when a piercer goes beyond their limits, or beyond their clients limits. Of course, it's just as irresponsible for people to claim the piercing is dangerous when they don't really know. There's far too much of that in the piercing industry, and it is a far bigger problem than piercers going too far.

I think that it's more dangerous when people are closed minded and can't think clearly about anything other than the small set of mods that they think are "ok". When I see articles by people like David Vidra and Michaela Grey, both of whom are highly regarded and intelligent piercers who should really know better, badmouthing "extreme" piercing, it makes me very sad... This sort of thing could destroy the industry from the inside, or at the very least force it to stagnate. The people who you'd expect to be the most open-minded are often the most closed.

RAVEN: Do you believe that body modification will continue to evolve in more extreme and unusual ways?

SHANNON: I don't think that it evolves at all. I think that it simply becomes more public.

However... there are some new technologies that will probably add a few new modifications to the roster. But it's really nothing new on a conceptual or motivational level.

The modifications aren't getting more extreme. There have been heavy modification individuals and groups for a LONG time, even in the west. People think that Doug Malloy, Fakir Musafar, and Jim Ward were part of the first wave in the West. I know of heavy genital modification groups that have a lineage that dates back nearly fifty years before then. The only difference is that one group got publicity.

RAVEN: From my research into the history of piercings, many modern piercings have no historical/cultural precedent (e.g. most female genital piercings with exception of labia, navels, nasion, eyebrows, etc.)

SHANNON: So? It's all just decoration and enhancement... That's all I'm saying. I don't think new piercings mean anything, except that they widen the palette. How much does painting change when you add a new medium? It's a still just emotional expression... If it wasn't such, it would be much more difficult for us to understand art from different eras.

RAVEN: But aren't implants (other than genital kandoekoe) relatively new forms on the body modification scene?

SHANNON: Of course, but again, it's just a new medium for the same impulses.

Shannon's shortlived forehead implants... Klingon-chic!

RAVEN: I wonder how much popular sci-fi t.v shows (STNG, Babylon 5) influence current trends in body modification.

SHANNON: We joke about that, but I'm sure it's true to some extent. If I were to have grown up in a tribal situation in Kenya, would I be culturally driven to stretch my ears? Probably. If I have grown up watching Star Trek, with most of my "heros" having sculpted foreheads, would I be driven to have the same? It seems I was!

Could I be as bold to say, that in fact, I have the cultural right to model my appearance after sci-fi shows?

* * *

RAVEN: Who are the players in the second generation of Modern Primitives?

SHANNON: All of us. The public.

RAVEN: In what ways do the second generation of Modern Primitives differ from their predecessors?

SHANNON: I don't think that they do differ. Maybe it's easier to be public when others have gone before, but the motivations and actions are overall the same.

RAVEN: Has the body modification industry peaked? Do you see a decline that many tattoo artists like Guy Aitchison are predicting?

SHANNON: No, I don't think that it's going anywhere. I'm sure that the industry will have highs and lows, but body modification will continue. Just like gays aren't going to go back in the closest, body modification practitioners aren't going back in the closet either. It's a societal shift that has happened, and it's not a reversible one.