A while back we documented Lane’s leg implant gone terribly wrong — part one, part two, part three (and it actually continues after that as well) — recently another problem piece, this one on iam:teenagerfrommars, manifested itself. What’s interesting to me is that in “body modification-style” implants on the calf, I’ve seen a very high complication rate — probably over 50% — whereas in the medical community, calf implants are actually a very low risk implant comparatively speaking (usually the ratio is the other way around). I don’t know if this is because they have a larger surface area, or some other factor.
Sarah emphasizes that she doesn’t regret what she went through, and doesn’t want to scare anyone away from implants, but does feel that it’s important that her story be shared, and I agree. This summer she decided on a large crop circle implant, carved from silicone and about 8″ by 3″, to be put into her left calf — this is the photo the artist sent her of the piece prior to implantation.
Continue reading for how the events unfolded.
At first things seemed like they’d be fine — at twelve days it was starting to get definition and she was looking forward to it being healed:
Unfortunately healing was far from easy. Over the next six months it was constantly filling with fluid, then swelling up painfully and enough to make walking unpleasant. She drained it several times which did little but cause her more pain, and she was losing hope that it was every going to settle down. In addition, her incision never healed properly, presumably due to the constant pressure from the swelling.
About three weeks ago she found herself in more pain than usual, but didn’t have any of the typical signs of infection, so she thought it was fine and planned on toughing it out. A few days later, at work, he leg felt “kind of odd — it didn’t hurt but it didn’t feel right either.” It didn’t help that on her way home from work she banged her leg on her car door. When she got home and took off her pants she discovered that the implant had begun to break through the skin.
She made a doctor’s appointment, and within a day a larger portion of the silicon was exposed and looking very unpleasant. Several days later when she had her appointment — her doctor was very understanding and non-judgmental by the way — they referred her to a plastic surgeon two days later, and instructed her to dress the wound and clean and change it daily (a very painful process).
They’d also swabbed her to check for infection, which came back positive. Sarah was put on heavy-duty antibiotics to keep the minor infection from getting worse or going systemic, and after her meeting with the surgeon was scheduled to have her procedure under general anesthesia two days later. This was her first hospital visit so she was quite nervous!
They made quite a large incision to remove the whole implant, and sealed it up with about twenty staples, leaving a drain (the photo above was the day after the staples were removed). Because of sickness from the anesthesia and her pain medication, Sarah mostly just slept for the first week, and describes the checkup three days later as “the most painful thing I have ever experienced in my life”. A home care nurse has been helping her, and may continue to for several weeks. She has not yet been able to return to work.
Bearing him no ill will, she may be going back to the same artist to have a scarification piece done to hide the scars left from the surgery, but emphasizes to those considering implants, “just make sure you know what you’re getting into and don’t take the risks of any procedure lightly, you never know.”
BME/News and Modblog highlight only a small fraction of what
I hope you will recover soon!
From a medical standpoint, I would say that the legs of most people are very prone to infection, especially the lower legs, because of the decreased blood circulation present. Even people without peripheral artery disease and diabetes are susceptible to decreased blood flow. Simply bending the knee and sitting down in a chair will compress the popiliteal artery and decrease blood flow… as will sitting for prolonged periods of time such as long car rides or airplane rides. This is the basis of deep vein thrombosis and peripheral edema, the skeletal muscle is not moving to aide the blood return from the limb and hence a fluid back-up blood will form a thrombosis, water, edema; both of which leave the person more susceptible to conditions such as cellulitis and stasis ulcers secondary to decreased fluid return.
in the case of the crop circle implant, there’s a couple things wrong. 1) the implant is huge and 2) the incision is made below the back of the knee, which is a notoriously moist area.
Jeff
Quite ambitious, maybe smaller crop circles and just one to start.
What I’m about to say may not be a completely new or innovative concept, but bare with me here.
I’m not a medical expert or anything but I’ve watched a lot of medical shows and done a lot of independent research because I’ve been thinking about pursuing a career in cosmetic modification surgery.
What if, prior to the implant, a slow process was started with a small saline bag that was to be inflated over time? Almost like a little breast implant, inserted under the skin, and filled very slowly to allow the skin to accommodate small stretching changes over time?
A small incision could be made where a bag could be inserted and filled IV style over the course of a couple months before the implant was inserted and slowly be filled to about half an inch of protrusion to allow the skin to slowly stretch. Almost like weight gain.
In a lot of cases of rejecting implants, they come through the skin. If a slow saline stretching process was started pre-emptively, the skin would already be prepared to adjust, and when it is ready to be taken out, the implant could then be inserted, and just like when you lose weight, the skin would slowly shrink back down with regular movement and activity.
Only this time, when it shrank, it would stop shrinking when it hit a properly placed implant, and lose some elasticity in the process, thus securing the future of the implant..
Just a thought. I’m sure someone else already brought it up.
Damn, that implant is huge. Maybe it would’ve worked better if each circle was done separately?
Another thing is that the implant appears to be carved flat, however, the calve is a curved surface causing un even pressure at each end.
Unless the implant is in fact curved?
I don’t think the size of the implant is what caused the problem personally — in comparison to implants that are put in on a regular basis in the medical scene, these are tiny.
As usual, Shannon chooses to be absolutely blind to the facts in favor of…well, whatever.
The reason why the bona fide medical community has more success with these kinds of implants is actually twofold:
1. implants done in areas that flex are *always* done with appropriate material—namely FLEXIBLE SILICONE.
2. nearly every single “practitioner” in this scene is a complete fucking idiot and has no idea what the hell they’re doing, while by and large, doctors finish medical school and then get tons and tons of practice.
It is absolutely no surprise that retarded street-surgeon implants go wrong so often.
And by the way, whoever carved that crop circle silicone and installed it needs to be put in prison. I don’t give a fuck who they are.
what a trooper!
scarification FTW!
Did they really need to make that big if an incision? You would think with it being a plastic surgeon they would have tried to lessen the scar left behind ???
ishinenotburn – Unlike Lane’s implant, which was able to come out of a small hole because it was fairly solid and singular, this one would probably have had growth between the gaps, so trying to pull it out of a small hole would have potentially torn it up. Also, because the surgeons wouldn’t have been familiar with exactly what happened, they would have played it better safe than sorry and opened it right up to get a better look and make sure everything is out.
Wow.
I hope she starts to feel better, what an ordeal.
wow! poor girl…very informative post though…i think people should see posts like this when considering implants…JUST hearing there’s a chance of rejection isn’t translated as well as seeing what occurs with rejection…
now i don’t know much-if anyting-about implants, but wouldn’t putting such a large implant in an area so tight and moves so much, encourage rejection? like i said, i don’t know about implants-just seems like a really impractical place to put an implant…especially so large…
That implant was huge! It matters not whether surgeons routinely implant objects of that size, this was not a surgically performed procedure that she had done. Nor did the implant look as if it was flexing with her leg. The “artist” should have started off slowly, with a smaller piece, and gone from there. A small fuck-up I could forgive, but months on end of pain and then hospitalization? Personally, I wouldn’t go back to that person for any reason at all, ever.
Thanks for sharing. Heal well, Sarah, feel better soon.
Ouch! I hope things go well for her.
“A while back we documented Lane’s leg implant gone terribly wrong — part one, part two, part three (and it actually continues after that as well)”
Continues? Is Lane all right?
Coulda been so much worse, coulda been necrotizing fasciitis! Ack.
ChillyMama – Honestly, it looks to me like the piece flexed fine, and while this is large, it’s definitely not too large or abnormally large, and definitely “working up to the size” would likely cause more problems rather than less.
TrinityVA – They had to open up the wound for drainage.
Wow. Hope she’ll recover well from this. I mean, with only the scar to deal with.
Just to say,yttrx
Antagonising people, and making fun of what seems to be both the modiication scene and the person who’s runs this blog is needless and childish
You say practitioners don’t know what they’re doing, well where does your large pool of medical knowledge come from exactly?
Grow up and fuck off mate
theNOTHING- seriously man. I completely agree.
I’m glad this was posted. I was talking to Sarah last night about this. I’m really glad she’s thinking about scarification work instead. I hope to see pictures when she finally gets her crop circle. =)
I just can’t imagine the body excepting something like this. I’m sorry to hear that she got sick. I can’t believe she had it in as long as she did. wow!
That’s unfortunate. I would have loved to have seen this piece healed.
>>>nearly every single “practitioner” in this scene is a complete fucking idiot and has no idea what the hell they’re doing,
Have a quick browse through some of the success stories in ModBlog and you’ll see just how flawed that statement is.
The implant looks very rigid, and not smooth at all. Not something I would want put inside of me.
Shit ladies! That piece of silicone looks EXTREMELY jagged. Maybe that’s just the editing, but seriously. Not something I’d want under my skin. All ofthe subdermal silicon implantes I’ve seen have been relatively smooth-looking…but this look all chunky and…ouch!
I didn’t submit this to Shannon for anyone’s ‘input’ asking for peoples opinions on MY decisions, so everyone-just save it. This was meant to be an informative article instead of just a big list of risks most people come across when researching a procedure so that people REALLY know what can happen. I do not regret my decision, I’m healing well and at the least, I was hoping someone might gain from my story. A scar is a scar and I’m not obsessing over this so maybe none of you should be either 😛
Devtastic – I’m not sure how you’re able to tell that it looks rigid from the photo? How can you tell that it’s rigid, versus being softer silicone (which is what it is)?
Ace – When I first saw carved silicone I had the same worry, but I was told by a cosmetic surgeon that it was a non-issue. There are implants they work with like chin implants that are sometimes carved during the operation and parts are just as rough.
oh well, thats ok then!
To those negative people posting on this – of course complications are possible. Of course body mod practitioners overall do not have the same expertise as a plastic surgeon with yeaaars of supervised training. Most people into mods enough to consider implants should own up to their own responsibility in finding out about risks, and while it sucks that every implant and other procedure doesn’t work out, I have to say – this implant may have been on the large side, but not larger than implants that have worked in the past. Like Shannon just said, carving edges on soft silicone pieces is not an issue in the way that those edges would play into how a teflon implant would behave. That is some poor english, but regardless, my point is just – keep it civilized, shit happens – learn from it, don’t bitch.
people can get so petty on here.
anyway, thank you shannon and sarah for the information.
serenity: thank you. “Most people into mods enough to consider implants should own up to their own responsibility in finding out about risks” That was one of my reasons for wanting this posted. I did my research, I knew it was possible and it happened to me. Hopefully it helps make people realize that the risks are REAL and that they can happen to anyone. Lane’s leg boobies are a great example of this too. They were small and they didn’t work out either.
*Deity* help me for saying this, but, yttrx has a valid point. Unfortunately, coming from him degrades the message because people *would* rather shoot this particular messenger.
Until the people offering implantation services adopt and propagate the proper set of ethics and take the *time* to bother to learn what needs to be done you will have a high failure rate. Period.
Size of the implant is not the issue. It is the “hows and whys” – i.e., location, implant construction, implant materials, thickness of implant, thickness of the epidermis, motion, impact, appropriate subcutaneous undermining, appropriate positioning relative to the musculoskeletal system, skin prep, sterile field prep, properly addressing and customized the implant to prevent tension/pressure points, mechanical failure rates, suture selection and pattern selection….I could go on if anyone would like….
Do you need a “Medicinae Doctor” degree to learn all this? No. Most of it comes after the M.D., anyways, during the residency phase of those training to be surgeons. Sure, it’s harder to learn on ones own, but it can be done. In this day and age there is enough information out there to be had for *free* that would provide any practitioner truly wanting to learn with a solid foundation in the surgical principles needed. Time and numbers would groom them from there. The question I find myself asking every time is “why aren’t they?”. There’s really no excuse.
To point to the image galleries as the definition of “success” is flawed as well unless you have the raw data in hand to support your position. How many were still “successful” in terms of healing, lack of side effects (neurological and musculoskeletal), migration, shifting, patient perception of, etceteras at 3 mos? 6 mos? 12? 18? 2 years? 5? 10? 15? Far too many implant images are “fresh” to be able to say with certainity they were a “success”.
Lastly, if you don’t have the doctorate degree to back it, don’t offer your re-interpretation of what medical literature you’ve read as “fact”. I’m pleading here. Just present what you found on the subject – plagerize if you have to. Trying to put medical information into layman’s terms if you don’t have the experience does nothing but propagate bad information and contribute to the general “dumbing” of humans in general. Hell, even doctors have a bear of a time trying to do it and fail at it spectactularly sometimes. Sorry to be so harsh, but it has to be said.
And as far as “saving it” – what did you expect? People to read this and just go “yeah, that sucks – them’s the breaks, eh?”? Believe it or not, some of us actually know what is possible. If these people would just get a conscious, this wouldn’t have been just another “lessons learned” case of what can go wrong with a nice scar to show for it instead of a pretty implant.
I know it is borderline ranting but stuff like this just tears me up. How can *anyone* just go “meh….it happens” when it doesn’t have to beyond acceptable risk/complication rates?
I wouldn’t be able to tell… I was just saying that’s how it looks.
Fetch – In the cases where doctors offer overlapping services as practitioners, it’s been my observation that practitioners often have a higher success rate. I’m not convinced implants like this need med school type training any more than piercing does.
#24: How many gunned lobe, cartilage and nose piercings have successfully healed? I know I have 9 gunned lobes, a gunned helix and a gunned nostril from pre-2002 (I was 16 or under) and all have healed successfully. That doesn’t mean the practitioners knew what they were doing, and it doesn’t mean they weren’t stupid, or weren’t lacking sufficient knowledge.
What’s that, Sherlock? Oh, I think it’s some ownage! Ziiing!
#27: Sarah, you got this posted in a public blog, people are going to voice their opinions whether or not you ask for it. Unfortunately you have no control over that. So I suggest you envision yourself as a cool lake, and the comments you dislike are rocks that cast momentary ripples on your surface. It’s the Internet, for Christ’s sake. 🙂
It’s all about numbers guys. I don’t care what job you are in, there is ALWAYS risk factors and error ratios associated.
In my opinion I think that the removal incision was WAY too large for the piece. Even with growing tissue (which could have been separated from key-hole style points along the leg), it seems odd to practice that much over-kill. I wonder if perhaps it had begun breaking more along that side and they removed the thin/broken skin.
I think MAD props to the artist. Carving those silicone circles ALONE deserves an award and the tiny incision point is very impressive also. As far as any of us can tell, they did an excellent job and numbers just got the worst of the situation. I want to know what density the silicone is (generally I’ve seen the clearer the silicone, the higher the flexibility – but not always the case).
I’m sure the same people that are saying the artist should be locked up would be thinking how awesome it would have looked if it had have healed well.
THANK YOU SHANNON AND THE WEARER FOR BRINGING THIS TO LIGHT. More people NEED to be aware of the risks of the other side of the coin.
I didn’t say I was getting worked up about it but there is no point in being so negative when it has zero effect on the person who posted 😛 I don’t really give a fuck, it would just be *nice* if people kept it to themselves. I gave my reasons for wanting this posted and that’s all that matters to me when it comes down to it. There was also a comment up there about being so passive with the whole situation, but what am I supposed to do? Freak out because I have a scar? Not the end of the world, people.
jOELTRON: I think the biggest factor when it came to the huge incision by the surgeon was the fact that it was infected and that I don’t think he really knew what he was dealing with. He did mention beforehand that he had wanted to remove it with two small incisions but with the infection, they wanted to get in there and see what was really going on. That drainage hole at the top was also where the original (unhealed) incision was so they cut that out completely and the curve on the side where it was stapled back to together was where the actual implant was completely exposed (the pic of the exposed area was the first day, it got a lot larger by the surgery date).
Guys, it’s not the practitioner’s fault. If it is who I think it is, then he’s had years of experience, and yeah, these things do happen. I personally thank Sarah for sharing this with us. It was an eye opener for me, at least.
There is no reason to believe this is the practitioner’s fault that I know of.
i know there’s no reason to blatantly blame the practitioner, i’m a piercer so i know things aren’t always peachy even when you know what you’re doing… but it kind of bugs me that they aren’t named. I think that discussion has been had before though.
Just because I’d be interested to see if all of these screwed up procedures are coming from one or two people, or if it’s all just random.
albeans – The decision to leave it out was mine — I left it out because I believe that (a) it’s not the practioner’s fault, but (b) many people who don’t know better will assume it is, so I chose to leave it out of the entry to keep the entry focussed on the larger issues.
The fact is that this is one of the best artists in the scene, and ultimately these are risks that can’t be eliminated. Certainly a *BAD* artist can compound them and add new risks, but it’s really, really, REALLY important for people to understand that even in a best-case-scenario, things can and will go wrong from time to time.
Sarah: Thanks for clearing that up, I thought as much but wasn’t sure.
albeans: This experience wasn’t about the practitioner because it wasn’t their fault, or mine.I just happened to be one of the few who didn’t heal their implant successfully and the point was to show what can happen since there aren’t a lot of photo documented experiences about implant problems. Like I said in the article, I wouldn’t hesitate to get work done by this person again because I know they’re very good at what they do and that’s all anyone needs to know.
Shannon:
I didn’t say implantation services required medical school training. Quite the opposite, truth be told. A lot of what one needs to know is readily available off the ‘net from what I’ve been able to tell in my limited searches to see if what I preach is correct. “Professionals” have a higher success rate because they learned and apply the basic principles religiously. At least, to me, the answer for how to avoid such mechanical failures is clear. Possess the ethics to get the basics down correctly first and success will be the rule rather than the exception.
Hey, I agree that one cannot necessarily blame the practitioner. Not enough information provided to draw that conclusion. After all, shit happens. right? Infections get a toe hold even under the most sterile of conditions. And for all we know she soaked it in raw sewage for 30 minutes every day.
But I am looking at it with a critical eye and and could tell by the 12 day photo what the outcome of the case was going to be. Why is that? Because it’s posted here? Hardly. Because it was evident to me basic surgical tenets had been breached/ignored/not addressed. So, why is that if (s)he is so well known and experienced? Is it a matter of not knowing or not caring? Or both? Or neither? I, for one, would sure like to know so if there’s a bona fide gap in knowledge there it could perhaps be addressed in the hopes of preventing further implant failures that should have never happened.
Run on, much?
No more vodka when posting for me.
Sam
I hate being the stick in the mud wet blanket provider…but how can we say this WASN’T the mod artists fault? Remember with Fame(best) there is also Infamy(Bad)
Based on the years of observing medical (plastic surgery) shows I’ve absorbed what I’ve seen…I don’t claim to be a plastic surgeon or my knowledge anywhere NEAR the knowledge of a plastic surgeon/medical practitioner…But I will say from what I’ve seen over the span of 12+ years the mod artists aren’t quite following the proper protocols that plastic surgeons do.
For subdermal implantation plastic surgeons often flush the pocket out with sterile saline as well as have suction tools to help keep the pocket clean. Also you have to factor in with medical practitioners they have the power of the pad and pen to prescribe anti-biotics…Something most mod artists are unable to do, which I personally believe makes a BIG difference.
Also the way they prep the implants to my recollection is different as well…Although I see difference methods…For example I’ve seen a plastic surgeon pull a breast implant out of a plastic container and cover it in what appears to be betadine/iodine and washing it with sterile saline before inserting it.
I can totally see how they inserted the piece after making the pocket large enough as well, its not hard cramming something like that under the skin once the pocket is big enough, even from a average size incision like what is shown.
Now am I saying this is the mod artists fault? Not entirely, it could have been the clients fault…Or even just their body did not like the modification….But if you compare all the complications of non-medical practitioners(mod artists) and medical practitioners providing these implant work…I can guarantee that the medical practitioners are far far far ahead on longevity and lack of complications.
Because the fact IS mod artists don’t have the training Medical Practitioners do…They don’t have anywhere near the amount of tools/equipment a plastic surgeon has…So anyone getting mod artists to work on them, is taking a huge risk EVERY TIME and its great Shannon that you’re posting these pictures…Because that means it gets the risks out there so people won’t continue to think implants are simple and easy things and are just like getting a piercing.
Personally I would have liked to seen a picture of the implant right before insertion because from what I’m seeing there it looks poorly sculpted and very rough…Yes the concept is that the rough surface means it will adhere to the skin better…But it also means it will have a increased change potential uneven surface area for bacteria to thrive in…As there’s many different implant surface finishes all based on what is the implant concept in mind,etc.
also not to say that it’d be “outing” the mod artist or anything but personally I think it does the community a disservice by holding back the mod artists name.
As with the more documentation and name association to success and failures it will show the true numbers of consistency between each mod artist out there.
If mod artists are scared about the legal side, they should use nicknames/false names(not changing their names daily though lol)
Warren – No offense intended, but to be blunt, please, stop making a fool of yourself with holier-than-thou posts that pretend to be reasonable and informed when they’re consistently ignorant.
i have an implant and lots of other from this artist and honsaly i think this person has done some of the best work i have ever seen i would not go to any one els for extreme mods except this person
i only leave my self anonymous for then artist’s sake
no offense taken Shannon…I wasn’t aware I WAS making myself out to sound Holier-Than-Thou…If I was viewed as that, sorry it wasn’t my intention…We all know I like to ramble and babble and be long-winded.
I don’t see where I was being ignorant though, as I wasn’t saying this was mod artists fault or not…I was also simply stating my opinion much like others have that the procedures mod artists do aren’t really 100% identical to that of plastic surgeons…Maybe some are, but there are some that aren’t…Or maybe it was the statement of the implant surface?
I don’t claim to know (I even stated my knowledge isn’t that extensive on the topic) it all and I’m very upfront about that, especially with implant work(as I no longer desire implant work after my own failed experience), I base speculations on what I see/perceive things to be.
I thought that’s what the comments feature was for…For discussion of the subject matters that were in place, and each person to make their statement.
but if you can please point out where I was ignorant and wrong, I’ll happily retract my statements and apologize and chalk it up to something new learned.
The problem I have with your posts Warren is that you know enough to get most of it right, but you’re not experienced enough when it comes to the edges of your knowledge, but you continue to speak with authority, which I feel misleads people. I think you should speak confidently on the things you KNOW, but be careful about over-extending yourself.
A few starter things that I imagine you’ll agree with once you consider them:
1. In my experience, modification artists absolutely do exceed the standards of the medical community. An obvious example that many of us have lived through is the fact that the cleanliness of piercing studios is what forced dentists offices to clean up their acts. Even today, it’s common to see piercing studios that have better protocols than private cosmetic surgeons. Seriously, if you are ever bored, make appointments at some top surgeons for a “consultation” and ask to see their OR rooms and go over their procedures and you’ll be SHOCKED!
2. The flushing and suction tools are not so much about keeping things clean per se — it’s primarily about visibility. In part this is needed because we’re talking about larger implants often done with far rougher technique, as I’m sure you’ve noticed if you’ve watched breast implant procedures. On the whole these tools aren’t relevant to smaller implants and short procedures.
3. In terms of complication rates, comparing similar procedures, complication rates tend to be higher in the medical community. This could also be an issue of the clients of course. Also, modification artist tend to have more specific experience doing these procedures, so even though a doctor may have the “book knowledge” to back it up, they may have very little specific hands-on experience…
4. In terms of training, these procedures are pretty basic. Sure, it’s not a piercing, but it’s not heart surgery either. The procedures require very little knowledge when it comes right down to it — any bright person should be able to figure it out, and as a generality, most of the practitioners out there are highly intelligent individuals. The area that needs a lot of training is dealing with emergencies, which is where a doctor will almost always come out ahead — THAT is an area where concern is warranted.
5. The same applies to tools/equipment. Very little is required in terms of tools/equipment to do these procedures. Hell, many doctors don’t even use elevators — they use use forceps to elevate the tissue, whereas many implant artists have a myriad of spatulas refined for these procedures. Again, where doctors win is that they have equipment to deal with emergencies. The procedure itself isn’t the issue.
6. The implant finish is just fine. As I mentioned earlier, before I knew better, this was my gut instinct as well, but both doctors and practitioners told me that it was a complete non-issue.
Apologies for any typos in the above.
Oh, there’ll be a video of Lane’s boob job appearing on ModBlog in a few days folks!
Think of it as a mammary memorial.
Awww, poor Lane. I wish his lack of boobies all the best, I sure hope he’s doing well.
I think also a point noone’s exactly brought up yet is that mod practitioners are pretty much exclusively doing procedures which don’t mold or fit the previous shape of the body part they’re working on, with edges and the suchlike desirable results when inserting implants. Doctors and plastic surgeons are doing procedures which conform to the body and accentuate or enlarge previously existing structures, putting much less stress on the skin and much smaller shock to the immune system. Of course complication rates will show this, however the nature of the work is essentially different and imho each is more experienced in their ‘field’, be it implants and mods or plastic surgery and augmentations. Just my two cents.
Haha, can’t wait Roo, My leg is still open and they finally have me on anti-biotics but it still doesn’t look like it has closed much.
Definitely agreeing with what you wrote Shannon…If anyone views me as an authority on this subject, definitely disregard that notion because I most clearly am not…I’m just an observer as I’m very fascinated and interested in medical procedures as well as the type of procedures mod artists do and I just take mental notes about the differences,etc.
The one thing I will say is even medical practitioners, there are good ones and there are bad ones…Just like piercers, just like fashion designers, plumbers,etc…The good and the bad and all points in between.
I will say though Shannon that by saying these procedures are being done in studio environments, is also misleading people…as I know for a fact artists are doing procedures in locations other than piercing studios, ie: Hotel rooms…Which as we all know with hotel rooms, no amount of cleaning will get the filth off them, black lights make those rooms glow, so much you could probably seem them from space.
Definitely the suction and saline is more for visibility but also I was under the impression that it helps keep debris(dust, lint, microscopic air-borne debris) from coming in contact with the inner portions of the body and ending up getting trapped inside when sutured up…ie: keep it clean and visible.
I will agree with the complications statement you made and I stand corrected on that…Because most of the modifications the mod artists are doing, plastic surgeons just aren’t doing. But the one thing is that with plastic surgeons, do they not have to keep records and document all procedures…So if someone came in with a failed procedure it has to be documented right? Whereas with mod artists the failed experienced are brushed under the reg and ignored, on occasion they get posted..Which is why I’m happy to see that, because it does show the risks and enable people to make informed decisions.
Also the simplest procedures, complications can arise…Many of us have all seen and heard about mod artists going too deep or not deep enough…But I will say again that isn’t always just a mod artists problem, medical practitioners can do that too.
I will agree also about the tool differences…A lot of procedures I’ve seen medical practitioners elevating tissue with scissors and just cutting away under the skin…Although there is procedures like the breast implant technique of going through the navel area, where they use a type of dermal elevator but its more like a giant rod with a spike on it.
I’ll also retract my statement about the surface texture as well…Cuz there are textured and non-textured implants. I was just curious if potentially problems could be attributed to that…But yeah I doubt the surface texture was the problem now that I have had time to think about it.
Definitely will agree though that where doctors win is the concept of emergencies, availability…Although recentlty I will say that always isn’t the case either…I’ve seen a few shows where the doctors did a simple check on after the procedure was done and the patient(was a labia and hood reduction procedure) needed more time, but they simply looked to have pushed them out the door…Whereas I’m a firm believer in 24 hour observation before dismissal.
But yeah I do not mean for people to view me as some expert genius with a holier than thou attitude…just a caring and concerned individual who likes to just provided personal thoughts and insights and if I’m incorrect I’m definitely hoping someone can correct me on the subject.
57: Shoot Me Again: Personally I’d say you’re mostly correct however there are places in the world where doctors do not pay attention to working with the body shapes,etc…There’s been quite a few shows based around doctors who have put too large breast sizes in people, taken out far too much breast(various other areas too) tissue
But also don’t forget their are cheek, chin/jaw, and many other implants that doctors do often that are essentially what is being done via subdermal implants by mod artists.
This is all based on the views of size/shape of the implant…honesty I don’t think the implant was too big nor shaped in anyway that could promote the problems…again this is my view though and I might be wrong *shrugs*
sorry about typos lunch is calling my name causing a rumblin an tumblin tummy.
Shannon, my plastic surgeon reviewed my notes, photos and time line I had given him and agreed that even though he doesn’t endorse what I have had done I and Brian took the same actions he would have and removed the implant at the right stage. At no time did he say it was the fault of Brian’s, in fact he told me rejection is more common than the general public thinks. Then went on to explain how commonly breast implants reject in women and how he takes care of them. It may take up to six months to heal but he did feel I and Brian were taking the appropriate measures. His name is Dr. Edwards and he holds clinics out of the University of Alberta Hospital if anyone wants to contact him. He is very mod friendly and open when it comes to procedures, risks and what to do when something goes wrong without pointing his finger at you.
Is it just me, or do the implants in the photo look kinda scabby, like they aren’t finished yet? If they were inserted like that, it’s possible that the fact that they weren’t finished properly would have added to the irritation of the implant under the skin. I don’t know much about silicon and whether it can be brought to a fine finish or not though.
Warren, when you refer to “a lot of procedures I’ve seen” are you seriously talking about something you watched on television?!? I hope no one is viewing the person who readily admits that they gain all their knowledge from PLASTIC SURGERY SHOWS as an expert!
I had an obnoxiously long monologue typed out, but then it got et. I guess that’s my sign to go to bed.
You – Quit cheering. 🙂
I will however take the time to say I am more than just a little disappointed in several of your responses and the rational behind them, Shannon. Of all the people involved in the body modification industry, I assumed you to be one of if not the most educated “non-professionals” when it came to the medical aspects of body modification as well as being the client/patient advocate’s advocate. Maybe I’ve got it wrong, but you appear to condone improper and inadequate surgical/anatomical knowledge, technique and instrumentation. Strip it down to its fundamentals and it is the same damn thing as using a CBR in a navel piercing.
If the discussion is still lively tomorrow I may make a second attempt to disabuse specific arguments made.
‘night gracie.
Hold Fast: Reading Books, Watching Documentary’s, yes watching tv shows, analyzing photographic evidence, networking and sharing stories with others (others who have had implant procedures like myself)…and I have seen quite my fair share of implant(transdermal & subdermal) procedures done in person.
and like I said I never CLAIMED I was an expect…I am basing what I say on my own personal implant experience, which after problems started occurring I tried to tap as much resources as I can on the subject matter. Short of hunting down plastic surgeons to discuss the matter.
Hold Fast also would it scare you to know that a number of mod practitioners initially based their techniques,etc via watching those plastic surgery shows, observing photos and videos of procedures,etc?
Just like how there are piercers who see pictures of piercings in magazines,etc and without even doing proper research, try to mimic the exact same piercing.
The media realm is but one realm of many where if you watch enough of it and absorb enough content you can sift through the shit and find the gold.
Also can you consider a mod artist an expert in their field although they have had zero medical training? As most are piercers who have since left that profession or expanded outward from piercing.
“I’m Not A Doctor But I Play One On BME“
fetch – I’m not advocating anything “improper and inadequate”. I think to put it more accurately, you have an inaccurate concept of “improper and inadequate”
CC – Carved silicone can’t be brought to a “better” finish. But I put “better” in quotes because it really doesn’t make much of a difference.
Warren – I understand what you’re saying about hotel rooms. We faced the same thing in the “early days” of piercing when a lot of demos were done in clubs, and it’s certainly something that one faces in suspension as well. It’s very possible to control a small part of an environment even outdoors. As long as you’re not talking about a procedure where you need to control airflow — and this isn’t that — you just have to be smart about it.
I also don’t think that the average mod client brushes their failures under the rug at all. I think doctors are far more likely to do that — not that it’s evidence, but that very issue (that doctors simply let their insurance, rather than their conscience and knowledge, absorb the failures) has been the subject of much morning talk TV!
Shannon – A quick question: if you feel that implants aren’t surgery and hence don’t need the same level of training, how about breast implants using silicone? Could they equally be performed by untrained mod artists?
Thomas-
1. I didn’t say that.
2. Your question is ridiculous and leading.
Not interested in playing a game. If you’ve got something to say, say it. Don’t try and mask it in a “clever” question.
The carving on those implants is amazing. This artist gets better “finish” on carved silicone implants than any other artist out there in my opinion, and as Shannon stated the texture on the implant isn’t an issue. Sometimes things just don’t work out on certain people and that’s all there is to it. There could be endless factors that contributed to this not working, it could be partially the practitioners fault, or he could have done it perfectly, it could have been the clients fault, or no ones fault, it could have been from too much movement in the area, too little movement, too much moisture, too little, etc. No one knows exactly why it didn’t work out on her, and thankfully she seems to be a good client and understands this and knew it was a possibility before going into it.
So many people are so quick to jump up and blame the practitioner when something like this is posted, but these same people would definitely be saying how amazing the same person was had this worked out and healed in the end.
I have to agree with Shannon in regards to post #67 it was a rather loaded question game.
However my personal view point is that Subdermal/Transdermal implants are considered a form of Cosmetic/Plastic Surgery, nothing less…But again that’s my personal opinion and that’s the great wonder of the world, we’re all allowed to have our said opinions.
#69: Steve, you essentially said what I was saying (minus the implant “finish”, because I was just speculating) just you said it much more accurately and what not lol
How is the texture on an implant not an issue? How is it not different from high and low grade metal jewellery, where scratches irritate a new piercing? (or so I’ve read)
With normal movement, skin moves over your muscle, if something is under it, it wouldn’t be happy, much less if it wasn’t smooth.
Or is it not an issue simply because it’s silicone?
I’m curious to know if Sarah or Lane are allergic to latex.
and if the implants were installed using latex gloves.
Likely too late coming back to this particular table since the focus of attention moves so quickly around here.
My concept of “improper and inadequate” is right in line with current medical standards of care. 🙂 I put in my 8.5 years to learn it and have practiced it daily for 6; I’m secure in the wheres and whys my position stems from.
There is no reason those without a medical degree offering implantation/surgical services to the general public cannot be held to the same standards. In fact, it should be demanded.
If you truly want to know why your previous list of arguments prompted me to draw the conclusion I did, let me know and I will be more than willing to accomodate you. However, if you are not interested I see no point in typing it out again as then it would be a waste of both our times.
Regards,
sam
Actually, fetch, I’m very interested in hearing what you have to say about why you think things didn’t work out.
[email protected]
#72 Helen: I do not have latex allergies. I do not have any known allergies actually.
I’m so glad that I’m the one who started this valid and necessary dialog again, because god fucking knows im the only one who ever does.
I will answer only one point made in my direction in this thread, and its the once that was made concerning a quick perusal of modblog showing me that many of these practitioners do indeed know what they’re doing.
I disagree. I’m not saying that they dont know what the fuck theyre doing because I read an article—I’m saying that they dont know what the fuck theyre doing because I know *who they are*.
And shannon, if you dont start naming these artists…I think I might. And further, I think I might start sharing exactly what it is you know about these people but are too chickenshit to actually say.
The thing that always bothers me with the dialogue over these kinds of procedures is that anyone who tries to ask questions about the skills of the person doing the procedure will consistently get shot down with the phrase “you aren’t an expert” and comments suggesting that because they aren’t, they shouldn’t comment. I can’t even be bothered to ask a question as I know that it won’t get answered fully as I don’t do this kind of work.
I am glad that Sarah chose to share this experience with everyone so that there is more information about the potential risks out there.
wow, what a pity, that would have been awesome.
dear god. ahhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
hahahahahha after looking at “starfucker” i wanted to get implants in my penis. but after seeing these photos. i think ill get them on my arm instead. the only puss i want is on my penis not in it….get it? hahah
wow i’m a bit late coming back to this… i just have a personal interest in knowing names, because every time i see a fucked up mod i think to myself “I bet that was *world renowned and oft brown nosed mod artist who left filthy blood spray all over our piercing cubicles after claiming he would clean them up and we shouldn’t worry about it*”
yep i’m a dog with a bone i just can’t let go.
But regardless, I’m still thankful that these things are at least posted, so that people thinking about getting a fully sick implant understand that it doesn’t all end in awesomeness.
thankyou, i have my answer now, not who i was guessing it to be =)
Surgeon here doing research for a client who is interested in similar implants. As far as I can tell from the information provided, there was little, if anything that could have been done to make this procedure successful. Any surgery of this type is an unfortunately inexact science. It’s new and we don’t always know what will happen. By surgery of this type I mean any implant surgery, whether done by an MD or artist. You are putting a foreign object into your body. It is dangerous.
That said, when clients come to me seeking these kinds of procedures I refer them to an artist. Not because the procedures are more dangerous than what I do, but simply because I do not know how to do them (and my hospital won’t let me try). The artist I refer my clients to has a similar success/rejection rate to my own.
Shannon, Sarah, thank you. Your information was very helpful.
does anybody ever put any stock into yttrx’s opion ??
I can’t believe they cut that much to take the implant out. Especially since an implant is put in with such a small incision. I hope she likes scars cause that’s gonna be a nasty one. It’s a shame that implant failed cause it seem like it would have been cool.