Steak on a vegan kid???

DangerEric may not eat steak, but now with the help of Noelle at Divine Machine in Buffalo, NY, he wears it permanently (“it’s a vegan irony tattoo”)…

Update: Click here for another vegan steak tattoo, this time by TOPSITURBY at Freak’s Lab Body Kustom (Lyon, France).

See more in Political and Patriotic Tattoos (Tattoos)

This entry was posted in ModBlog and tagged , by Shannon Larratt. Bookmark the permalink.

About Shannon Larratt

Shannon Larratt is the founder of BME (1994) and its former editor and publisher. After a four year hiatus between 2008 and 2012, Shannon is back adding his commentary to ModBlog. It should be noted that any comments in these entries are the opinion of Shannon Larratt and may or may not be shared by LLC or the other staff or members of BME. Entry text Copyright © Shannon Larratt. Reproduced under license by LLC. Pictures may be copyright to their respective owners. You can also find Shannon at Zentastic or on Facebook.

162 thoughts on “Steak on a vegan kid???

  1. its a porterhouse…from the short loin, on the left side is a mignon and the right side is a ny strip. similar to a T-bone but in the porterhouse the filet is larger…nice marbling though

  2. My doctor says red meat is a good source of irony.

    *ba-dum ching*

    (oh man, I could go on for days…)

  3. I don’t eat meat, and I wouldn’t want a piece of meat tattooed on me, but I love irony and funny shit.

    So this tattoo made me smile.

  4. Hooray for Divine Machine!
    Noelle just finished her apprenticeship, this looks great.

  5. I love the orange rays behind the steak. Meat is nasty, but funny ironic art always makes me smile…

  6. Haha fair enough but as a vegan myself I just couldn’t get a peice of meat tattooed on me.. not even for the lols!

  7. I don’t know why, but I have a thing for fake foods.. like replicas of foods, and for some reason, certain tattoos and drawings of foods fall into that same category for me… this meat tattoo is totally fake food fantastic! I love it :)

  8. why does it seem like everyone around me is turning into a vegan?

    is that what I have to do to be cool?

    steak tastes too good

  9. #22 its because are realising what we are doing to the planet and what the affects of mass meat production are and how cruel it is. Now with this knowledge many people find themselves unable to eat meat or meat products. I agree with you steak can taste good (I do not eat it though lol). hope that helps.
    btw does any1 else see a flamingo in the marbling?

  10. Berto, I think you’re missing the point entirely. Watch Meet your meet on you you tube, and you’ll see why some people just don’t look at steak the same way anymore.

  11. I don’t eat meat or animal by-products. it would make me very uncomortable to have a piece of steak tattooed on me.

  12. E- Rich I’m not on acid, but I see faces all the time in everything but there is definitely a face in the steak. :)

  13. #22: Its because people who are weak have this need to belong to a group and sell their being to conform to arbitrary standards that they try to justify even though its nothing but hypocrisy.

  14. I do occasionally eat red meat. When I do, it’s New York Strip. Being a carnivore a couple times a week is one of my unpopular traits along with being a gun-owner, being a skinny female, being American, and being Jewish in the deep south.

  15. generally Berto, one is vegan for one of two reasons. one, they care about the world a LOT, or two, they’re fans of good charlotte or some other such, and being vegan is therefore “it”. It’s either about being aware or cool, it really depends on the person.

  16. To all the vegans who said that they’d never do it…there’s going to be veggies in the sleeve too, along with more “halo” on the steak making it kind of a sacred steak with possible a RIP or INRI type thing. It’s definitely not a done piece, but I’m not sure on what’s going to be final.I’m also scrawny so it’s funny to have a tough guy tattoo on the outside of my bicep, so i can “flex my beef”. haeither way, i love it and have had hilarious responses…

  17. I try going Vegan…too hard.
    “Fast Food Nation” good movie by the way.
    not about steaks. but how they kill the cows in that movie
    ahhh, gross and sad.

  18. So basically from what I can understand of your video, if I was to raise my own meat in respectable conditions, the organic way, kill it using an injection of some sort, it would make it ok for me to eat meat, right?

    In reality it’s not about becoming vegetarian or not, it’s about reducing the quantity of meat that we eat, meat is our principal source of proteins, we are naturally made to eat meat, the only problem right now in North America isn’t that we eat it, it’s that we eat meat everyday when we should do so only once or twice a week…

    As for all the cruelty, I don’t know haw many times I heard about PETA pushing meat producers to do cruel things (talking about all the beating) to their animals, filming it and presenting it as the raw truth…

    I think it’s really funny that they say in Meet your meat that it’s cruel to use a pig that can’t even walk out of the truck to produce meat… Wouldn’t it be muuuch crueler to let it go to waste? At least all of his suffering will have had a goal…

    Humans aren’t about to stop eating meat, that’s for sure and considering that we mostly live in cities we’re not about to raise our own meat, which means that unless we reduce our meat consumption a lot those practices will just continue because it’s all about productivity and the sad truth is that it’s probably the way to be the most productive (and cost efficient).

  19. alot of the issue with meat is the “stuff” that is put into it. Un the U.S.A. many meat producers use rBGH (recumbent Boviene Growth Hormone) which is banned in the E.U, Australia and other countries. this is used in meat and dairy cows. Recent studies suggest that rBGH has something to do with the startiling low puberity rates in some areas of the united states (age 7-9). addtionally over consumption of meat can result in colarectal cancer, indigestion problems etc. Also in countries such as canada and the US (and many others) that have used DDT on crops. These crops are not used for growing food for direct human consumption but BUT they legally can be used to grow food for cows and pigs and chicken that are in turn eaten by the human populas. this may not sound like a big deal but tby the process of bio accumulation the toxins (not just DDT) in our food can add up and cause adverse health affects to humans. now for an additional point many of the veggies or vegans I talk to say that they would eat meat of the animals were not kept in such appauling conditions. And I agree with the point above their are categories in which people fall into for their reasons to become vegan or vegitarian such as wanting to fit in, rebeling against the society/protesting the conditions of animals or for health reasons.
    Just for the record though meat is incredibly unhealthy in the amounts that the population at large eats it. and ethically we should all be vegitarians (not vegan) in the developed countries since we are able to get around not eating meat and supplimenting ourselves in ways many other people around the world cannot.
    well I hope this enlightens some people to whats in your meat and some schools of thought that are out there. hopefully I havent enraged anyone.

  20. As a matter of fact, in many undeveloped countries they don’t eat much meat… I take for example my friend who went to Nicaragua and lived in a family and he pretty much ate rice with beans all the time, he ate meat only a few times during his month there…

  21. MatLax, I’m not even going to bother arguing with you. Maybe you should do a little research first.

  22. I pretty much know the source of the last meat meals I ate. On about 600 uncleared ranch acres the deer had become overpopulated so the herd was permitted to be thinned. This is a wild herd that wasn’t “stocked” in any way. So friends with hunting liscense went in and shot a buck.
    It wasn’t mounted or trophied (which is kinda creepy anyway) the deer was cleaned, smoked and made into steaks and sausages and jerky.
    And I took some venison steaks.

    I know exactly how it was killed and dressed.
    I don’t feel guilty about eating an animal that had to be thinned. Sure, in a perfect world I could’ve taken the wild buck and made it a pet in my apartment and dressed it in a hemp oversize doggie sweater. Or relocated it to a “sanctuary” or a petting zoo (wild bucks make great kid toys).

    Shit happens and sometimes you sacrifice the few to save the many with wild herd. The animal was killed humanely and used.

  23. #32. Yeah, being “it” in others eyes who don’t know me is a good reason to make a life choice.
    Good Charlotte…good grief.

    And on a lighter note, I also see faces in the steak tattoo =)

  24. Eloquently stated HereKittyKitty…..the thing I always wonder about is-what about all of the small animals and insects that are displaced and killed by agriculture? what of all the animals that fall victim to the Combine as it clears the fields? is that ‘humane’?…surely living off of the thinned herds roaming about or hunting for personal sustenance is far more ecologically supportable than eating or wearing a bunch of processed stuff that is meant to resemble animals products in taste or texture but end up utilizing non-renewable resources in their creation.

  25. I don’t often eat meat from a store because I’m not sure what sickness the animal had (if it had to be drug to the slaughter) and what sort of hormones was injected into it. I know that the chickens my grandparents butchered did NOT look bloated and really really yellow like the chickens at the supermarket.
    Personally, I’d prefer a nice salmon to any red meat. But I’m not sure about farmed fish anymore…and I’m concerned about the pollution in wild waters. I guess you take your chances just as you do eating irradiated (sp), genetically altered, and pesticide tainted fruits and vegetables.
    Even with organic foods…you just don’t know what type of tainted rains fall from the skies. Really. It’s falling thru polluted atmosphere.

    You just try to get along best you can and live another day.

  26. Wonder about more important things, Heron … ;)

    As far as I’m concerned, veganism’s about doing what you can. Unfortunately, it’s true: nobody’s/nothing’s 100% vegan. At some point, some creature somewhere will suffer in some way for something. (Got that?) However, by making responsible choices (with clothing, food, etc.), humans can reduce much unnecessary suffering; and in my opinion, that’s better than nothing.

    Also, I haven’t read the rule book, but I’m pretty sure it’s completely uneffective to go on messageboards, ranting with a “holier than thou” attitude about your beliefs — and I’m directing that, in this particular case, to the overzealous omnivores. I never understood why people, when completely unprovoked (see: this forum), get so defensive about their decision to eat meat. RELAX. You’re not being picked on. There’s a very huge difference between being recommended a book/video and being called a murderer. (Side note: MoonChild, check out Earthlings.)

    Anyway, I’m not seeing these steak-faces …

  27. ilovecake, I will wonder about what I wish, that you very much, these were merely minor questions I had…and please, leave the condescension at the door. I have had plenty of experience around the propaganda of both camps, and I just don’t see that being the typical vegan is really doing that much for the planet, on the whole.people-want to do something for the real good of the planet, leave civilization.

  28. Okay, I am seriously having modblog withdrawal issues. I check it literally every 30 minutes, and have been so bored this weekend, especially today – I look forward to new posts, I’d rather trawl through every photo here than do my work haha

  29. Moonchild: I don’t know why you would try to argue with me, I’m basically saying that yes we should reduce our meat consumption but I’m just realistic, there’s no way everyone will stop eating meat… And you can’t argue with the fact that we are biologically made to eat meat otherwise I will have to direct you to the definition of canine tooth (and also the fact that we can digest meat is a pretty good hint) ;)

  30. I am sure it is against the posting etiquette but i haven’t read all the comments-

    personally I am a vegetarian and always have been- as well my children are- but that is a ‘choice’ and if I wish to be respected in my choices I will pay the same honor to others.

    I do think there is more to the debate about humans being carnivores or herbivores than what has been stated.
    I am sure it could be widely debated either way-
    still I tend to think we are omnivores and even that is cultural rather than biological perhaps.

    our jaws- teeth (including canines)- length shape and texture of our intestines- our alkaline saliva- colons- stomach size, kidney, liver- lack of claws- they are all more inline with the biology of an herbivore.

    I am not even sure i would agree that we can *digest* meat- heart disease is a scary thing to me.

    Still we evolve and change and adapt and while I can hope for certain changes in lifestyle and environmental impacts to the planet- I don’t begrudge those who choose to eat meat. It isn’t my place as far as I can see.

  31. Ok, here’s the thing about saying that eating an animal that had to be thinned that’s completely idiotic. Until humans decided to interfere and kill animals for food, pleasure or whatever other sick reason you see fit, animals had this thing called natural predators and nature kind of took it’s course and thinned the herds on it’s own. Now that we kill whatever we feel like, make animals go extinct etc that doesn’t happen anymore so we justify our actions by saying we are stepping in and being human and killing off over-populated animals. It’s ok if you eat meat, it’s your choice to senslessly kill an animal even though you can eat plenty of other things that are way healthier BUT being ignorant and not knowing what you are talking about isn’t really forgiveable. It’s still your choice to eat meat though I guess and personal attacks are boring so I guess I shouldn’t judge you eh? Considering we are on a website that promotes not judging people based on their choices…don’t you think we should all stop being complete and total dickheads? :) We should all do our part to help save lives, the planet and ourselves since we know we have so many problems so don’t say a choice that helps save animals and the planet and cholesterol levels/weight problems is wrong. kthx :)

    I’m vegetarian and proud to be. If you don’t think eating meat is bad for you, you should really do some research. Plus, you are killing animals for FLESH. Why not start eating humans? I’m sure you don’t see that as proper so why is it ok to eat one flesh yet not another. :P

  32. Also, our “canine” teeth are merely stumps compared to animals that actually are designed to eat meat. Go ahead and compare your stump to a lion and tell me they are the same tooth. Our intestines are designed the same way plant eating animals are, not meat eating animals AND we end up with all kinds of diseases and problems with our body from too much consumption of meat. You may say that we aren’t doing a whole lot by not eating meat but then again, at least we aren’t killing animals, polluting our bodies and basically fucking the world over either…that’s a pretty big accomplishment to me :D

    There are more and more people choosing to eat healthier and help out every day so we can all hope that one day we will realise how bad our actions really are. Being vegan or vegetarian doesn’t make you any less of a man, any less of a person or any of that…in fact the only thing that it does is piss off you meat eaters because when you talk to a vegan or vegetarian you realise how wrong eating meat is :(

  33. Animals are animals and the very fact that this creature exists to mindlessly reproduce so that I, a thinking and sentient creature, can eat the now dead flesh of an animal that WOULD NOT EVEN EXIST IF WE DIDN’T WANT TO EAT IT.

    Have any vegans considered this? Cows and pigs in the states they are born live and die now only exist because we bred all the dangerous characteristics out of wild stock so they’d be easier to kill.

    Plus, when a combine goes throw grain it kills untold millions of rabbits, birds, snakes and other wild creatures. One dead cow can feed a whole family for a week.

    Sure factory farms are bad, but just quitting the meat team because some meat is produced immorally is like not wearing clothes at all because some clothes are produced immorally.

    Why do vegans deny all meat eating but insist that coffee and clothes be free trade? Why doesn’t peta admit that eating meat isn’t immoral, but that immorally producing meat is immoral.

  34. No tension here. Just odd that whenever there is a reference to meat, that most (not all) vegetarians/vegans have to make the announcement “I don’t eat meat, but…” whether it has relevance to the modification/pic or whatever.
    Why would you need to announce it?

    When they put up the pic of the veggie sleeve, I felt NO need to comment “Well, I eat meat and you should consider doing it too. Lemme tell you why..”

    Just as I feel it’s rude to have a personal religion trumpeted as superior (or sexual preference for that matter) I get tired of having the herbal bible thumped at me.
    So I put my personal comment that yes, I do eat meat a couple times a week. And so?
    I realize that the majority of vegetarians/vegans do NOT take a holier-than-thou stance. But the ones who do are going to turn people off from even taking the time to hear what they say.

    And having teeth and stomach that aren’t inline to the right biology to eat meat is as relevant to me as the fact that my body wasn’t biologically/reproductively intended to have gay sex. I certainly hope people won’t look down on that as well. But each to their own.
    Different strokes, guys.

  35. Vance, I respect your views but I really DO think there’s a difference between eating a salmon and a human. Maybe not a whole lot. But some.

  36. Earthlings is what made me into a vegetarian. But really guys, why are you all so uptight about a personal choice? You eat meat, I don’t. If you don’t try and force me to eat it, I won’t try and force you not to. It’s ironic (like that tattoo) that people who are supposedly so open-minded can’t just accept that not everyone thinks the same way.

    Anyways, I think I’m the only one who can’t see a face :( And I’m looking forward to seeing the progression. Keep us updated!

  37. Lol, somewhat. It’s still meat though. I’m just saying like…this is a perfectly nice looking tattoo and instead of someone dissing on that they choose to disrespect his views and say that it’s wrong to be vegan etc. Lame. Just like if someone got on here and was commenting about how it’s wrong to be lesbian or w/e I would get pissed off and back you up as well…comment on the MOD not the persons views. If you got a tattoo that promoted same sex marriage I’m sure people would only fucking comment that being gay is wrong…shit like that pisses me off. :|

  38. #62, I can see your point again.
    And as far as sex goes…I see not only a face in the meat…I see a vagina or two lol.

  39. I’m curious why a tattoo based on a dietary choice is considered a political tattoo.

  40. Who ever said they saw Jesus, I saw him too haha.

    And can someone please point out where it was said that being a vegan is WRONG? I didn’t see anyone say that once.

  41. ilovecake, I know I’ve seen it thanks! I recommended meet your meat because it’s short… Earthlings is a very good movie indeed, just incase anyone is curious here is the link to it:

    I agree with what you said by the way… it’s about making educated choices to lessen the suffering caused by us.

    Meatlax, I have no intention to argue with you… but I’m not convinced about the canine teeth and our digestive system… however I do agree that we certainly can eat meat. I think some peopel have mentioned this before but if you don’t get it, look into it.

    Vance.. thanks for summing that up for some people.

    Kim, you ae right it is personal… but it does effect other sentient beings, and that is when I personally believe that we can say something about this. I don’t sit and preach about this all day, but when there is a relevant topic, I will say something.

  42. MoonChild: I find it funny that you call me MeatLax because I never promoted eating meat and in fact the only reason we ate meat more than once a week when I lived with my parents was because of my brother, ever since I moved out I’m on meat once and occasionally twice a week…

    My critic is about all those videos that shows us how cruel we are, ending up in “be vegan”… All right, I’m going to be vegan as of now but how can I have a healthy diet (since many vegans don’t! a minority, but still…)?

    Show me a video where someone explains to me how it’s healthier to be vegetarian if you make sure you still absorb eat enough iron/proteins and so on, not a video about how cruel we are because those things will convince people in the short run, but most will just go “whatever” after a while and tell themselves that only one person won’t make a difference…

    Now convince them with the fact that being vegetarian is healthier and there you go, people will think “hey, it’s better for me!” because it’s very hard to convince a person with arguments that do not concern her directly, in this case, even more so since most people don’t believe animals have feelings!

    So there you go, that’s why I have a problem with all those shocking documentaries and vegetarians trying to convince other people not to eat meat by saying “it’s cruel”…

  43. ilovecake, you wrote:

    > Also, I haven’t read the rule book, but I’m pretty sure it’s completely uneffective to go on messageboards, ranting with a “holier than thou” attitude about your beliefs — and I’m directing that, in this particular case, to the overzealous omnivores. I never understood why people, when completely unprovoked (see: this forum), get so defensive about their decision to eat meat. RELAX. You’re not being picked on. There’s a very huge difference between being recommended a book/video and being called a murderer. (Side note: MoonChild, check out Earthlings.)

    Why? Perhaps because experience has taught them that sooner or later someone like Vance would enter the discussion, slinging insults about intelligence/knowledge and morality (“whatever other sick reason you see fit”). Do you think that this is somehow anything other than picking on people, or that his “if you don’t agree with me it’s because you’re uneducated” attitude is anything but “holier than thou”? I’ve lost count of how many Omnivore v. Veg[etari]an bouts I’ve seen over the years and I’d have bet money that someone would come along, saying pretty much everything Vance did.

    MoonChild, if you have doubts about the ability of our teeth and digestive system to handle meat, perhaps you’re the one who needs to “look into it.” Start here: Then you might consider doing a bit of research on the Masai, Chewya, Muhima, and Watusi of the past. Look up the survey of sub-Saharan tribes by a Dr. Weston Price in 1935. Nomadic herders. Some vegetables and grains. Mostly meat, milk, and blood. Without many of the health problems suffered by their descendants.

  44. lawlz e-drama.
    you know, humans eat meat. it’s just what we’ve always done.
    and why should i have to feel bad for eating meat?

    and rofl @ #57
    “It’s ok if you eat meat, it’s your choice to senslessly kill an animal even though you can eat plenty of other things that are way healthier”

    way to just. shove your opinion in there.
    senseless? no, i’m pretty sure we’re killing them to eat. Idk, that isnt very senseless to me.

    i’m very into raising awareness for animal cruelty – i HATE animal cruelty. but eating meat isnt cruel to me. if you kill the animal in a humane way.
    we’re animals, by the way. so why is it so bad for us to eat meat? why is a lion allowed but not us? go tell a lion to stop eating meat, if you’re so caught up about meat consumption. i’m pretty sure their method of killing is alot crueler than what we do. (in the humane places, anyway)

    and plus, those stupid videos about OMGAH LOOK HOW THEY TREAT ANIMALS IN THIS MEAT FACTORY ITS WRONG are really, really annoying. not every place is like that. at all. but then again i live in australia and the town i live in raises their cows/chickens/etc in lovely farms~

    idk, i’m not really going anywhere with this. but all the drama on this picture is rediculous.
    its a cool tattoo by the way~

  45. Emma, my friend actually said carnivores (like lions) eat meat because they aren’t intelligent enough yet to realize they don’t have to.

    Um, major lolz at that.

  46. the tattoo already had me laughing but Vance’s posts regarding ‘judgmental’ meat eaters takes the non-dairy cake and really DO make the tattoo seem ironic. the lulz on this post are deafening.

  47. Going Vegan Is For Sissies, Give Me Ribs and Give Me Chowder.
    Beggin’ Strips and Chicken Guts, I Eat Pork But I Take Showers.
    I’m Gnawing on Turkey Slathered In Gravy, Ain’t Got No Toilet But I’m In The Navy.

    This tattoo is awesome.

  48. Actually, as flawed as Heather’s argument is, the eating of meat in and of itself isn’t immoral – it’s what we’ve done to produce the meat that some see as the problem. I’m inclined to agree, but that doesn’t mean I’ll stop eating meat.

    And anyway, whats the big deal? If I choose to eat meat, I’ll eat meat. I really respect vegetarians and vegans for the same reason I support feminism – it might not be my cup of tea, but who am I to judge what others think and believe?

  49. “If you don’t think eating meat is bad for you, you should really do some research.”

    Ha. Haha…. HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Wow. I’m not going to sit here and say, “I eat meat and I’m proud,” or “I don’t eat meat and therefore better than you,” or anything else like that. I don’t care if you’re vegan, a veg head, eat nothing but meat or drink blood. I don’t care. You’re a human being and I’ll respect you until you give me a reason not to. This tattoo, for all intents and purposes, is hilarious. And I’ll leave it at that.

  50. on yesterdays specials menu…”Grilled Porterhouse ~ slow fire roasted 18oz porterhouse steak topped with an ancho chile-lime butter and crab meat served over swirled mashed potatoes accompanied by seasoned haricot verts”…thought id throw some positive energy into this thread

  51. There are two significant arguments against eating significant amounts of meat (I’m not talking about “meat as a luxury food” or occasional meat eating — I’m talking about daily consumption)…

    1. It’s unhealthy.

    2. It’s environmentally unsustainable.

    Moral and cruelty arguments are highly subjective in my opinion and difficult to make in earnest. But the above two are irrefutable and quite free of ideology. They don’t say you should never eat meat, but the reality is that it doesn’t make sense on either a personal or a societal level to do it in quantity or with regularity…

  52. People who try to justify killing and eating mammals for pleasure are hilarious. We know, intrinsically, that it is wrong to kill. Why does this apply only to other humans (and even then, only in some circumstances– it is TOTALLY ok to kill Iraqi and Afghani civilians if they are mere casualties of ‘necessary’ American justice!)?

    Killing for fun and pleasure is wrong. Meat eating is hedonism. Veganism is better for your health, your spiritual self, and everyone around you. People get pissed when they find out someone is vegan because they have all heard those arguments before– meat kills you via obesity and heart disease, factor farmed meat is full of chemicals and worse, suffering. As a society, we KNOW eating meat is wrong. Yet we continue to do it– and being creatures of habit, we don’t want to be told to stop! Meat eaters who ‘omg love steak’ are defensive. Hopefully someday they’ll soften up and realize that just because something tastes good doesn’t mean they should be eating it– and it certainly doesn’t mean they have a God-given right to genetically modify, inject and subsequently massacre an entire species for the sake of their taste buds.

    For further reference read ‘Living Among Meat Eaters’ by Carol J. Adams…. then follow up with ‘The Sexual Politics of Meat’…. and then, if you’re a sexy modified compassionate vegan boy, talk to me on IAM, because I need more of those in my life. Cheers! :)

  53. Shannon. Both of your points are not fact and both are completely subjective.

    Cocaire: what restaurant do you work at? That sounds amazing.

  54. Ralph n’ Rich’s in Bridgeport,CT…thank you I do the specials so its nice to hear feed back from ppl…if you come in ask for Pierce ill hook ya up

  55. Cere – How do you figure? I don’t think it’s up for debate that a heavy meat diet is unsustainable as a planetary norm — we just don’t have the realestate for it, and it’s also I think beyond debate that a heavy meat diet statistically leaves people with a shorter life and increased health problems.

    I’m not saying people should avoid meat — I’d actually suggest that the ideal diet is a limited meat diet — but heavy meat eating is quite difficult to make an argument for.

  56. Sannon: Well, as noisy said before, it looks like it isn’t that bad to eat only meat:
    The kind of meat that you eat makes a huge difference I guess… And their lifestyle probably helps a bit also, it’s easy to say that eating a lot of meat will result in cardiac problems in the long run, but the fact that we don’t do much exercise and that a lot of meat we eat come from fast food in North America surely doesn’t help either…

  57. Breakfast:

    Bacon, sausages, black pudding, eggs, potato cake, baked beans.


    Beef chilli with rice.


    Blackened cajun-style chicken served over a roast veg gumbo.

    Om nom nom.


  58. Oh and for the record, the bacon, sausages and black pudding came from a farm about 30 miles away, the eggs came from a neighbour who keeps chickens, the beef for the chilli came from a local butcher who has a dedicated ‘local and organic’ section (hormone-free, raised about 60 miles away) and the chicken breasts were from the freezer and were taken from a young male cock which my neighbourculled last year while thinning out the flock.

    Eat meat.

    Eat lots of meat.

    But eat good meat.


  59. You see, I think that’s a bit too much meat in one day… but still… you’re making me freaking hungry!!! *drools*

  60. I will only mention this and then be done with all the frivolity and games.
    This is in regards to the taxonomy argument in view of the physiology of the only extant hominid omnivore currenty on this planet:us.
    There have been two varieties of bipedal primates, the Australopithicenes, which included the earliest bipeds, such as A.afarensis, and the Homo Genus, which includes us, obviously. The Australo- line were herbivores and the Homo are omnivores, I use these terms loosely, because both had to take what they could, or scavenge,and for the herbivores, in some cases this included insects. The story of us arriving as a species has a back story of being scavengers, then hunter-gatherers, then agriculturalists.We have the anatomy of an animal who has the ability to moderately eat what it must. I do agree that eating too much of anything processed it not healthy, for us or the planet.If people really want to eat a diet that treads less on the planet look into bioregionalism and seasonal eating-go to farmer’s markets,eat local.
    The above stated information is not supposition, but is based on the fossil record, osteology, and basic physical/biological anthropology. Humans can eat what they wish and survive, do not fool yourselves into believing that we got here in some magical, herbivorous, frugivore way. below is a link very briefly describing what is viewed as a misunderstanding about the fact that we are indeed “built” to eat a diet of what we choose, and not “built” to eat only on the basis of some moral posturing.

  61. Shannon, I can understand and agree if your talking about eating tons of fatty meat all day long. I too think a diet of Pernil is unhealthy. But good meat as a part of a healthy balanced diet is a cornerstone of health. You have the cardiac issue you are referring to when you take a poor diet consisting of processd fatty meats.

    But what I really meant by debatable is the meaning of the word health. Thats a general term that is thrown around without people realizing its not an absolute term but a subjective one. What is the standard of health? BMI? Cholesterol level? Weight? Body fat? Heart rate? Disease? Amount of physical endurance or atractiveness to the opposite sex?

    All that should be considered before someone even tries the “healthy” argument. I believe a vegan diet is unhealthy. But see thats a BELIEF based off of my ideal of health.

  62. I also wanted to add that I find it really bizarre that people naturally assume that someone who is vegan is going to push their beliefs on you, but in a thread about an ironic vegan tattoo, it seems to be the meat eaters who are pushing their beliefs on the rest of us!

    Word to the wise: You aren’t solving ANYTHING by listing how much meat you eat over the course of an average day. If I were you, I would be painfully embarrassed that I was so hypersensitive to the beliefs of others.

    Again, paraphrasing Carol J. Adams (which I am STILL suggesting for everyone to read)– when meat eaters are confronted with vegans, who are clearly leading an ethically and physically superior lifestyle (yes, I went there), they’re going to be defensive. They don’t want to see someone doing something successfully that they themselves do not have the willpower to do. Giving up meat and dairy takes adjustment, and some people are just so set in their ways that they’d rather let their bodies rot than change. Hence the whole “MM ZOMG I LOVE BACON” argument– they’re basing their argument on personal preference, which is subjective and therefore inarguable (in a theoretical sense). What they’re really trying to say is that they themselves aren’t strong enough to give up meat and dairy, which are addictive, terrible substances.

    This type of behaviour, on a larger scale, is what leads countries to war. I say live and let live. Don’t come on a vegan thread and bash vegans. If this dude had a star of David tattoo, there wouldn’t be a Nazi in the house. Respect the beliefs of others and close your yap.

  63. Also, when he inevitably becomes vegan he won’t feel like an asshole bc of his “Vegan 4 Life” tattoo.

  64. I wrote a very long post about the very real conflicts between the ethical and physical ‘superiority’ that vegans claim and the reality of an omnivorous diet that uses meat that is grown, culled, prepared and bought in the ‘best’ manner possible.

    But I deleted that and replace it with this:



    PS: Meredith – My friend Godwin wants a word with you.

  65. MatLax, my comment isn’t getting posted but what I was basically trying to say is that I agree and see that for some people introducing Veganism/vegetarianism works better the way you mentioned, for some it doesn’t. My other main point was that I don’t feel like I gave up anything because I have managed to replace or alter everything from my diet to clothing to Vegan stuff but what’s even better is that I have become more aware of other issues because of my switch and I care a whole lot more in general. I feel really healthy and I can assuer you tasty, well balanced vegan diet (it doesn’t take much of an effort at all) can give you all the nutrition you need. The only thing we need to supplement is vitamin B12, which can’t be found in plants (unless they are contaminated with microorganisms). Getting enough protein is vers simply, getting enough Iron an calcium coldn’t be any simple either…

    I’ll try posting a few links for you in my next post.

    I spend less money, I feel better physically and emotionally, I’m doing much more than I ever did for our environment and last but not least the animals… the ones I’m doing all this for in the first place.

    So without trying to be pushy, I wholeheartedly recommend this lifestyle to people.

  66. #91. Way to go for labeling people who eat meat as addicts. The problem is that vegans often seem incapable of doing exactly what it is you are suggesting that meat eaters are incapable of doing. So anyone who gets up in arms about being called an unhealthy monster is an oversensitive prick? And every vegan out there is not only super healthy but physically superior? And you’re complaining about people bashing vegans(on a “vegan thread”-which this isn’t) while you also bash people who eat meat then claim you want everyone to live and let live? You have to read more books than just The Sexual Politics of Meat to get a well-rounded attitude about the meat “industry” and the meat free “industry”, there are hundreds of books out there. This isn’t a black or white issue. Not the way you are making it out to be anyway. General health is not something most people even have a sense of. Being 100% vegan doesn’t automatically mean one has a superior lifestyle, only that they are vegan. Eating meat three times a day is not healthy either-its balance that provides overall health. You don’t respect the beliefs of others by telling them to “close your yap” Meredith. You encourage real debate-not petty bickering.

  67. meredithgraves,

    I have to agree with you about the fact that many people become unreasonable defensive, so defensive that it borders straght out agression. This happens without us even opening our mouths at times, so it’s not about us pushing our beliefs onto anybody…

    Then again here is a quote from Earthlings:


  68. I’m glad other people have seen ‘Earthlings’! That’s a fantastic documentary. Problem being, whenever it is screened on our campus, people say, “I’m going to stop eating meat forever!” and then it lasts for three days. The apathy, it burns… but we have a small but mighty handful of vegans on our campus (including Bob Torres, author of ‘Vegan Freak’!) and we have our little soy cheese and tomato quesadillas and we are happy people!

    Starspring– If you’re so attached to something that you refuse to give it up, you’re an addict. Period. I’m addicted to smoking. I don’t want to be, and I’ve tried to quit– but sometimes I realize I just don’t want to. Well, I’m still a smoker and the day I quit, I will be a nonsmoker. If you eat meat and are so attached that you won’t give it up, you are ADDICTED to meat. Period. Sounds like somebody feels pretty threatened by an alternate viewpoint. And if you’re honestly offended by my use of an archaic slang phrase from the 1930s, then maybe you need to reconsider the important things in life.

    I’ve read a whole lot of books and my opinion still stands. But thanks for the tip. I’ll make sure to keep you in my thoughts next time I drive by a smoking slaughterhouse, you childish man, you.

    Penski– Your friend Godwin knows where to find me. :)

  69. 81- wow I wasn’t aware of the massacre of an entire species for my taste buds. Maybe you should come to kansas and see all the millions of cows we have. You can’t drive for 5 minutes out here without seeing cows, deer, or chickens. Kansas is however known across the US for our amazing barbecue. Mmm kc masterpiece. So perhaps I should move out of kansas because we are all some horrible meat eaters? I for one don’t care if veggies are your thing or if meat is your thing. I like meat but I don’t agree with wearing fur or snake skin or anything of that sort. So hmm if I listened to everyone else I guess that’d make me a horrible person. I’ve done my research on boths sides. I tried to be vegetarian but it didn’t last long because it just so happens I like chicken to much. Damn my taste buds I guess.

    I for one am sick of this whole vegan/vegetarian/meat eaters fight on modblog. Who cares if he got a steak as a tattoo. I had made the decision I wasn’t going to post a comment when I first seen this tattoo because that was his choice of a tattoo. I seen this when it was first posted and I didn’t jump in saying “mmmm I like meat everyone should eat meat” just like I never commented on any pics of tattoos that had veggies saying “mmm I like veggies or oooh that must be something a vegetarian got.” This fight is so ridiculous.

  70. H, all I have t say is that I don’t see why you’d be opposed to fur or snake skin, but would probably gladly wear leather and eat meat… Actually I do see… I used to say the exact same thing, until I realised how little sense it made.

  71. MatLax – Re: Inuit eating, as is pointed out, it’s a special subset of meat eating, to say nothing of the fact that there are significant environmental factors at play that make it difficult to compare sample sets, as well as the fact that the Inuit sample group is tiny, arguably too small to draw complete statistics from.

  72. Meredith: Based on the way you analyze what an addiction is, you are addicted to vegetables, which isn’t any better, you don’t want to stop eating vegetables, so you are an addict! Oh god, I’m addicted to water because I don’t want to stop drinking it!

    Meat isn’t addictive, it’s just that some people just DON’T WANT to stop eating it because it isn’t necessarily harmful… you are the perfect example of a vegetarian who tries to push her belief on others…

  73. Sneezy, I bet you are too, how about I cook you for dinner? I’d especially like to have your blood fried with onions with bread… yumm.

  74. Well MatLax got to it before I did. Meredith, your ‘debate’ style is pretty ridiculous. You are everything you claim to be against. An alternate viewpoint isn’t filled with judging others, calling them addicts(laughable and unsubstantiated at best, at worst just inaccurate)and does about the same amount of good. Speaking as someone who barely eats meat every couple of months, and almost never red meat of any kind, I’ve never felt like I couldn’t stop-and have done exactly that several times-so please climb down from your superiority chair for a moment.

  75. Moonchild- I do not wear leather either. My post did say “and things of that sort” I do not wear fur, leather, snake skin, OR anything that came from an animal. I don’t agree with using an animal for fashion purposes. And yes I do eat meat and that doesn’t make me a horrible person. Last time I checked I was allowed to eat meat. I do not however eat meat every day. I’d have to say more like once a week if even that. So I must say your assumptions about people amuse me to no end.

  76. Starspring, just out of curiosity why do you think eating red eat is worse than eating other meat? Meat is meat.

  77. H, I’m sorry, I didn’t realize that you were against that, Many people don’t really mean it and I come accros this quite often. And if they do mean it, they don’t go as far as bothering with the less detectable “animal” that is in many makeup and whatever else that they wear for fashion purposes.

    You are allowed to eat meat, but I still find it just as cruel, unnecessary and unethical… Who do you check with anyway, did the animals say “yea, sure go ahead eat me?”

  78. Moonchild- I did mean what I said. Using animals for the purpose of fashion does disgust me. I do not own or wear anything that is made from animals including my makeup.

    And you are right in the fact that of course I can’t ask an animal if it would like to be eaten. I do infact agree with many of the views that vegetarians make but I do however not like the wild assumptions and generalizations that are made about people who do eat meat. I do not agree that I am some horrible person just because on the rare occasion I happen to eat some chicken. Chicken is infact the only meat I will ever eat and I buy it from local organic stores that only sell meat that has been raised in the area around where I live. Sure that doesn’t fix everything but it does mean I’m not eating meat that has been pumped full of shit.

  79. People dont die from meat consumption. They die from poor overall eating habits. If people ate nothing but fried tofu all day, theyd have the same problems. Youre trying to tie the “unhealthy” diet into meat when it should be tied into unbalanced general diets and high processed foods.

    Cocaire: If youre still reading this thread can you email your restaurants info? Im in bridgeport here and there (RUBY II’S!!) and itd be good to eat at restaurant with a special like you named!

  80. I simply fail to understand why people are seen as being above nature instead of a part of it. We are animals too (and to the shock value people who suggest eating humans, I don’t see a reason other than moral/ethical beliefs that discourages it). Overproduction and overconsumption are the major problems we have. There is no reason to kill thousands of cows every day when a single cow can feed a number of families for a pretty decent period. And large agricultural yields actually create more problems than they solve (I recommend you read The Omnivore’s Dilemma). I would also like to see how many of the veg(itari)ans here eat corn, which is mostly undigestible to humans. How is that better than eating meat? Here is a thought to live by: don’t consume more than you actually require. If you decrease the demand, you will eventually decrease the supply. Fewer fields to disrupt with combines and fewer animals killed sounds good to me. And I highly recommend the book Ishmael by Daniel Quinn if you want to really look at the way humans approach the Earth.

  81. >_< wow thats alot of stuff since I last was here lol.
    Anyway.. Cere wrote :

    “Shannon, I can understand and agree if your talking about eating tons of fatty meat all day long. I too think a diet of Pernil is unhealthy. But good meat as a part of a healthy balanced diet is a cornerstone of health. You have the cardiac issue you are referring to when you take a poor diet consisting of processd fatty meats.

    But what I really meant by debatable is the meaning of the word health. Thats a general term that is thrown around without people realizing its not an absolute term but a subjective one. What is the standard of health? BMI? Cholesterol level? Weight? Body fat? Heart rate? Disease? Amount of physical endurance or atractiveness to the opposite sex?

    All that should be considered before someone even tries the “healthy” argument. I believe a vegan diet is unhealthy. But see thats a BELIEF based off of my ideal of health.”"

    1)We do not require meat to live in north America, their are other ways for us to get our vitamins that are much better for the environment. 2) Vegans live longer then meat eaters FACT
    3)any poor diet will kill you- isnt it irrelavet that you raise this issue? 4)Health is the complete wholeness of one all physically mentally and spiritually and anything that falls under those categories should be considered part of ones health and has no subjective value that I can see. as for the attractivness to sex, if that makes you happy it id good for you mental health therefore it is good for you aka healthy.
    and finally:
    I am interested in seeing why you believe that being a vegan is unhealthy, i understand it is based on your ideas of belief of health but please expand.

    but im done here reading all these posts and seeing all the blaintly uneducated people (not cere, he/she knows what their talking about i think) raise ‘points’ about things they know little about is distressing…

  82. H, I see what you mean and I’m really glad you took all those steps! IT’s ahell of a lot more than what people in general do. May I ask why it’s so important to you then that you have the occasional chicken? I think chicken are pretty cool and intelligent and I don’t think any animal deserves to be eaten wether it’s a dog, or a chicken.

    Cere, a bad diet is a biad diet, however on an average meat eaters diet is worse than an average vegan’s diet. Meat contains cholesterol which a Vegan’s diet doesn’t for example.

    AZSkye, Since switching to veganism, I have become a lot more aware in the issues you just mentioned and I completely agree with not over consuming, it is a terrible habit.

  83. Moonchild it is not really important to me to eat chicken. I’m sure in time I would be able to drop it off my menu but at the time being I like being able to have it every once in awhile. Like I said earlier I tried being veggie and at that point I wasn’t really ready to give it up and I also didn’t really give myself time to get to a point where I wouldn’t want it. And also when I tried my family didn’t support me and would refuse to cook anything but meat. So I sorta had to take it or leave it. So I personally have chose for myself to start eating it less and less till eventually I wouldn’t want it anymore because that’s the best method for me.

  84. > “Meat is meat”… hahahaha… no wonder people are getting killed by meat consumption!

    Yet that was said by one of the anti-meat-eaters.

  85. I personally don’t make my menu choices by thinking about what animal “deserves to be eaten” at that time.
    And I DO think that the fact that I eat quite a bit of fish is a healthy diet. I have red meat, honestly, maybe once a week.
    I love salmon, shark and roughie. Fish oils are beneficial to me. I feel it rounds out my diet and keeps me healthy.

    I hate to break the stereotype of the average carnivore/omnivore, but while I’m preparing the fish I do not revel in it’s misery and demise.

  86. H, that was the best method for me too. When I first went veggie, I went back to eating meat not much later, then I decided to do it gradually and it worked… once I got to the last meat I was consumng, which was lunch meat I simply put less and less in my sandwich it didn’t take long. I guess the most important advice anyone could have for a person making the switch is to learn how to make all the stuff you like only vegetarian… it doesnt at all have to be about giving things up, as I aid earlier it’s just a matter of beingcreative and substituting. Family isn’t always supportive at all, it get’s easier though, don’t worry. Luckily there are plenty of places on th enet where you ca get advice… for me a group on Facebook, helped me tremendously. Knowing your way and discovering all this new stuff can be very rewarding!

    HereKittyKitty, do what you want but I seriously feel sorry for the fishies you are eating… also, fish may have been “healthy” at one point but they aren’t anymore. You don’t have to wonder about anything ignorance is bliss.

  87. MoonChild – not to put too fine a point on it, but do you also feel sorry for salmon which get eaten by bears? How about when a lion takes down a zebra?

    Everything that lives becomes food for something else, eventually. That’s how the ecosystem works.

  88. Moonchild I must admit you’re quite lovely when you’re being nice haha. No offense. I am trying to get to the point where I have cut out all meat. Not the easiest thing when my brother is a meat cutter at the local sams club. See I’m not such a horrible person haha. I guess ill finally have to learn to cook haha.

  89. Moonchild: to answer your question-you are right, meat is meat. The tattoo is meat from a cow-beef in this case, which is why I mentioned it specifically, but I rarely eat meat of any kind. Its too expensive and I am not a good enough cook. I have enough issues eating food in general-including really disliking most vegetables(and save the “you just haven’t had them prepared the right way” lectures)most of what I eat is grain based. The thing I find most lacking in education about the meat/dairy industry is subtlety. Bands like Consolidated did much more to educate me because they met me where I was, not beat me over the head, with name calling and insinuation(not saying that you have done that but there’s plenty who have on this thread alone). There’s far too much polarity in the arguments. not enough room for reality.

    I’m all for having alternate viewpoints. I’m also not a fan of fundimentalism of any sort-and some of the thinking in other posts here not only verges on it, it totally crosses over into rhetoric. People have to realise that not everyone will always be able to conform to their standards, no matter how much better you think their life might be once they’re ‘enlightened’.

  90. What this forum has become is funny. It’s why I got the tattoo in the first place.Vegetarians, Vegans – I do my thing, eating what I eat, not eating what I don’t want to. I can be at a dinner at a restaurant or likewise and people don’t even notice. Because I don’t make a huge deal out of it. If I was of any religion I would breath down other people’s face that wasn’t of my faith of how they should be and why. Veganism is what my body seems to like, I feel healthy, I get blood workups to see if I have defiecencies, I like it. Why do people define themselves by their diet? Just eat what you want to eat and let other people alone.
    Omnivores – Everytime anyone even mentions the fact they’re vegan, you find it’s an invite to tell them that wht they are doing isn’t correct and that being omnivorous is healthier, etc. If you tell me you eat meat, I won’t start telling you all the cons of it, nor should you do the same. If I start a vegan debate, feel free to jump on in and protect your side. But if I just mention I’m vegan, it’s not an invite by any means to start a debate.
    Enough said. I got a steak because you can see what kind of debates, opinions, and everything else it starts. Thanks!

  91. Thanks Cere. I find it a very large compliment too judging on the fact that you are a man of intelligence. Maybe I should start a debate on a forum of mine for it, haha. It is fun, but I do see both sides of the debate.

    I think that different people have different physiologies. I have had friends go vegetarian and they’re bodies lacked energy, etc. Then other people seem to have more energy and less lag with avoiding animal products.

    A good healthy diet should be based on what your body is telling you and not one thing is good for everyone.

    I was lactose intolerant since a young child and never ingested too much dairy, nor did I ever seem to have a large appetite for meat. I ate it, but I didn’t seem to need it. The transition to an animal free diet felt like a natural one and it was an easy one.

    Homeopathic “doctors” and dietitians know that what is good for one is not good for all and they advocate tailoring of diet based on activities, blood types, heritage, etc. and I believe that they are most dead-on.

  92. xaonon, actually I do feel sorry for them, just because someoen can and will eat them doesn’t mean their life is worthless to begin with. However I’m not going to argue with lions for example because they truly do depend on meat, unlike humans. When a lion devlops technology for him to fortify food with the taurine and so on that he needs from animals I’ll argue with them too. Furthermore. humans can make the educated decision not to eat meet for ethical, health, and global issues while lions can’t. You are hurting an animal intentionally for the pleasure of your tastebuds while a lion does it for survival.

  93. H, hehe thanks, I’m not always mean, it’s just that I really love animals and it hurts me to see them exploited hurt and killed for nothing, that’s all. Yea, learning how to cook and knowing the options that you have at restaurants for example makes it MUCH easier. It takes a little reserach and trial and error at first but it gets easy I promise.

  94. Starspring, that’s pretty cool, I’m glad you don’t eat too much meat. I’m not going to give you a lectur on vegetables, but I have to admit that I didn’t like them either, infact I practically only ate potatoes and a couple of other vegetables before… so I know what you mean. However about preparing them right, what they only really mean by that is if you prepare them similarly to what you’d expect from a meat dish for example it can make all the difference, Till this day I’d have trouble eating a dish if I were to view it all as a vegetable dish… I have to make one area seem like the main part of my dish, so I make “meatballs” breaded and fried stuff, stir fries and what not to go along wit my side dish, that way I don’t feel like I’m only eating vegetables. So I guess wether we liek it or not, preparing dishes and knoiwng your option and especially being creatvie in the kitchen does make a difference.

  95. Starspring, the other hal of my message got cut off so here it is again:
    There are people that make an awesome songs, shows, lectures or friendly conversation about veganism/vegetarianism, however a lot of times it’s hard to find that perfect tone, or perfect opportunity to say something. Most times people just don’t want to hear it in any context at all. Telling someone you are vegan if asked is enought to get them to tell you how wrong you are, so you can imagine how often we come across this in the first place. I wish we coudl all give you facts but see, there are too many of them and most meat eaters think that none of it is factual to begin with that’s how all these debates start.

    You are right not everyone is open for whatever sort of enlightenment you are offering, I know that, and there is not much I can do about it besides having that frsutrate me. I’m not doing this for myself, or some god or some kind of organisation, I’m doing this so that people could possibly be a little more aware of what they are doing to the billions of animals killed each year for them. I don’t like praching about anything, however if nobody stands up for the animals nothing wll ever change, this is not about my personal preference this is about the lives of others.

  96. Eric, when I go out to a restaurant I try not making a big deal of it eaither, I simply know my shit and know what not to order and that’s about it, other than that I gladly eat without telling everyone that what’s on their plate is just sick, even though I may feel that way. To me it’s not about defining myself by what I eat, I just don’t like the idea that so many animals are killed each year and taken for granted. I’m all for animal rights actually, so it’s not just about being vegan for me. I geuss that’s where people get confused, some vegans do it for health some do it for animals, but a lot of times it goes shand in hand with other causes, so it’s definitely not just about food.

    What you said to the omnivores is true though.

  97. my argument isn’t stupid – meat is made to be eaten, and our teeth, stomachs and digestive tracts are made to digest it. i don’t think anyone should eat all meat all the time, but small amounts and infrequent large amounts is not going to make me unhealthy.

    i honestly think the weird thing is adopting a label that implies a lot of stuff that doesn’t make sense to me.
    humans are animals, animals eat animals and also plants, so then, humans should eat animals and also plants.

    when we start talking morality we start getting beyond cows and chickens and have to start talking about where morality comes from. i’d love to know the stats on vegan belief systems because i presume the average vegan is either athiestic/agnostic or, if i want to stereotype, neopagan revivalists. the point is in these world views morality as black and white does not exist, which makes animal cruelty not actually bad, just gross and unpleasent.
    honestly if there was some way to extract a healthy food staple from a cow that was entierly earth friendly and whatnot, but put the cow in one hour of excruciating pain before it eventually died, drained of essence, would this be immoral?

    but then again, i can only speak for myself.

  98. Heather Papps. I’m sorry but your argument is still stupid. If you’d look into what you said, you’d realise why.

  99. You know Cere it’s about tha pain and suffering and not wether I like trees better than pigs or not, no one has proof that plants feel a thing, however it is VERY obvious that animals that have a nervous system do feel! If you have ever bonded with any animals for 5 minutes you prombably noticed they also have personalities and feelings all together… I have no choice but to eat plants, since a frugivores diet isn’t healthy and most people can’t sustain it for a length of time, however a vegan diet and lifestyle is. If I were to eat meat as wel I’d be doing a lot more harm not only to the enimals eaten, but to the plants too because it takes a hell of a lot more plants to raise the animals that will be eaten. I’m not going to bother argue, a vegan diet is better for the animals, better for health and a better for our planet, I don’t see why you are getting uptight about others doing something you can’t be bothered to do.

  100. Omnivores do bond with animals. Some of us spend most of their earnings taking in and rehabbing stray animals, not to mention paying out of pocket for spay/neuters. Some of us spend a great deal of time doing our trap/neater/and release of feral cats, working as shelter volunteers, and fostering neonates.
    I have taken elderly, special needs, and post surgical animals at my own expense, into my home, because no one else would.

    MoonChild, your ethical stand isn’t above mine. It’s different but it isn’t superior.

    Go on and live your life and eat what you wish. But do NOT tell us about animals and “doing something that others can’t be bothered to do”. I bother to do a lot.
    End of my discussion.

  101. Congrats you save a few and kill a whole lot more.. it just shows that you care about a couple of species and coldn’t care less about the others. How typical, cats and dogs above all.

  102. I love how little I even need to post in here. Moonchild is doing more to make a mockery of veganism then I could if I put 100% effort into it.

    Moonchild. I have pets. I love mine more then you love yours. Actually I want to come over, and cook your pets and eat them while you cry.

    Your argument is based of what YOU project. That because you cant relate to a plant its suffering means nothing. Then you go on to make the claim that being frugivore would be better and that “most people can’t sustain it for a length of time” which is the same argument that you lambast when an omnivore uses it.

    And I love how you make these ridiculous statements that are completely an opinion, yet you use them as fact.

  103. here is the crazy thing moonchild, you ignored my whole argument which is this – animals can feel pain but are not sentient beings and we eat them because we are supposed to.
    Life feeds on life feeds on life feeds on life.
    All digestion is energy transfer – someone with such a stereotypically hippy name like yourself should know that. unless you’re a crowley fan which makes me wonder why you’ve not adapted his attitude of fuck it, eat it or piss on it.

    anyways, the crux of the argument for vegetarianism is that eating meat is morally wrong, and that is why the argument will always fail.
    eating meat is not morally wrong. consuming ANYTHING is amoral. it is merely a fact of nature.
    the issue is how the meat is produced – no one dissagrees that wasteful and cruel factory farms are bad – protest them and only them.
    peta and other groups waste time fighting for the animal rights that don’t exist because animals are incapable of understanding rights.

    we foist morality onto the most primal things that are at their core beyond morality. instinct, the drive to survive and reproduce – these things are natural, and just as rape because one can’t control ones passions is wrong, so is raping the land or cruelly mistreating animals for food or profit in any form.

    HOWEVER, using an animal that has been selectively bred over thousands of years for the purposes it has been bred for is no more immoral then using a dog trained to herd sheep to herd sheep.

    modern cows are for meat and milk and leather. that is a fact. and facts aren’t stupid.

  104. Cere, you love your pets so much yet other animals? :) Funny, cause that’s one of the reason I actually turned vegan, culdn’t stand the idea that they could be on someone’s plate.

    Personally I dont’t give a shit a bout what you think of me, and I don’t think you are being such a smart omnivore either… very typical one at that too.

    You know maybe I can’t relate to a plant suffering however you can’t relate to an animal suffering even if the animals is screaming right infront of you and you justify your actions by belittleing mine.

  105. If I was hungry, Id eat my dog. Doesnt mean I dont love her.
    ANd im sorry, but what animals do you think are screaming in front of me?

    Ok, you caught me. I have a zoo in my garage that I use for torture fun when Im bored. Im really honeslty beginning to think that you are really an Omnivore and are making these posts just to make vegans look stupid and idiotic.

    If thats the case, then Kudos to you kiddo.

  106. Heather Papps,

    You obviously have no idea what animals are like at all, I believe you should go learn a thing or two from them. I’m obviously for AR and you obviously aren’t no point in arguing any further. Animals arent ours wether you like it or not.

    Maybe it is energy transfer, how about I eat you? I think you’ll make a lovely pile of shit. Nothing wrong with that then according to your morals.

    So you’re saing that disabled people have no right either just because they can’t comprehend it?

    Some facts are very stupid indeed and can be I find it very sad that you look at a cow and think leather meat and milk…

  107. Cere, you must really love your dog then. I wonder if you’d eat your family or freind too if you got real hungry. You do realize there is other food out there than meat, right?

  108. Actually yes I would.

    And yeh, I realize that there is other food then meat. I also understand that meat is an ESSENTIAL part of a balanced meal…

  109. I don’t think I had much to add to such ignorance, really. I thought it has been established by now that Vegans can definitely have a balanced diet. Wether or not people care to give up meat is one thing, but claiming that you can’t have a balanced meal without meat is just ludicrous.

  110. vegans can have a balanced diet but it requires dedication far beyond that of eating a salad and hamburger. i don’t need to go to weird stores to buy gross things plus pills and supplements so that i get things like fiber.

    nature has given us all we need to live in the things that grow on her. for iron and protein and fat, we should eat meat. for fiber and vitamins and the like we should eat plants. we shouldn’t eat enough to get fat but only enough to be healthy.
    that’s how things should be.

    moonchild i have loved many pets, but the vital distinction between my love for my pet and your love for your pets is that i refuse to atrribute human charecteristics to animals.
    dogs are trained to be loyal. it is instinct. it is not a character trait. cats are not curious and intelligent, they get stuck in trees and eat yarn. if a cat is stupid enough to get stuck in a tree, it is not smart enough to love you beyond responding instictually with affection to affection food and comfort.
    and this is why animal rights is stupid. we should be humane to animals because we are human beings, not because animals deserve anything.
    nothing that grows on this planet deserves anything – the only rights that you have are ones that have been created and molded over years.
    a cow is not your friend. you can love this cow, but if you think this cow thinks you’re anything beyond some fuzzy food deliverer you’re dead wrong.

  111. moonchild, you’re a joke.
    at least walls have foundations, but you’re literally the worst example of a vegetarian, or whatever the fuck you are, i’ve ever interacted with ever.

    if nothing else, know that you’ve caused me to really think about how i feel about animals, and that you’ve helped me decide that i am going to not only continue eating meat, but that i should maybe pick up the consumption to counteract all the non meat eating you do.

    must suck to know that you’re stupid beliefs lead you to do something that will now have no effect at all – the meat you don’t eat – the animals saved will be tossed bloody and charred into my never satisfied maw. their sufferings legion, my pleasures immeasurable – i will draw sustenance from their pain, and countless joy from stopping you from making a difference.

    oh yeah i like the tattoo a lot

  112. maybe if you’re a babe?
    using my SA forums username doesn’t work if people think i’m a lady…

  113. Man, I didn’t know this thread was still going!
    I’m SO glad I went back to it because I would have missed “…the meat you don’t eat – the animals saved will be tossed bloody and charred into my never satisfied maw.”

    That’s fucking GOLD!

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>